Climate change fact or fiction

[five 7]

Appears the Mung bean and Tofu mob are running the show here in NZ now, we are getting endless streets loosing lanes to cycle ways but no cycles on them, the congestion caused and blocked up traffic lights must waste fuel and time, i don't mind pushy's they are fun to ride but there is a time and place, NZ is not suited to have bikes as a form of transport for most.
We now have a second harbour crossing walking cycles only, that our Govt found 700m to fund (there has been no survey done) for "possibly" 3k of walkers and cyclists. yet there are roads and bridges down around the country with no time frame to fix, talk about the lunatics running the asylum.
We then have a whole generation now (from constant fear mongering) that thinks we will be under multiple feet of water in the not to distant future or roasting under ever increasing temperature, this same generation will protest off shore mining at a well known beach near me holding up surfboards with no mining signs on them wearing clothing/wetsuits made from petro chemicals and they drove there in cars to protest, and will upgrade a cell phone yearly for no reason .
I just feel it has got out of control they now want to limit our farming production which is NZ s main form of income, cow farts are bad apparently, talk about shooting your self in the foot, do i think we can live cleaner yes but this is not the way.
PS. I'm waiting with baited breath for a ban against volcanos its coming soon.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by five 7

Appears the Mung bean and Tofu mob are running the show here in NZ now, we are getting endless streets loosing lanes to cycle ways but no cycles on them, the congestion caused and blocked up traffic lights must waste fuel and time, i don't mind pushy's they are fun to ride but there is a time and place, NZ is not suited to have bikes as a form of transport for most.
We now have a second harbour crossing walking cycles only, that our Govt found 700m to fund (there has been no survey done) for "possibly" 3k of walkers and cyclists. yet there are roads and bridges down around the country with no time frame to fix, talk about the lunatics running the asylum.
We then have a whole generation now (from constant fear mongering) that thinks we will be under multiple feet of water in the not to distant future or roasting under ever increasing temperature, this same generation will protest off shore mining at a well known beach near me holding up surfboards with no mining signs on them wearing clothing/wetsuits made from petro chemicals and they drove there in cars to protest, and will upgrade a cell phone yearly for no reason .
I just feel it has got out of control they now want to limit our farming production which is NZ s main form of income, cow farts are bad apparently, talk about shooting your self in the foot, do i think we can live cleaner yes but this is not the way.
PS. I'm waiting with baited breath for a ban against volcanos its coming soon.

I live on both sides of the fence and see both arguments (to a point)

The cycleways/walking thing is based on build it and they will come.
Here in Victoria the conversion of the old disused rail corridors was an obvious choice and built with minimum funds unlike NSW massive overpriced scheme of things, in fact I moved from NSW's lack of country bicycle network to Victoria's close by cycle friendly towns.
The Victorian railtrail network is vast and extensive to a point where it promotes a mass of interstate and foreign visits year round. This new wave of cycletourism is generating a whole new breed of spending by punters who have lots of disposable income not tied down to car ownership.
In the cities I would be grateful if more "bad cyclist" were using cycleways freeing up the road for drivers who need to use them.
I would go further in allowing trucks making deliveries in morning peaks to have priority over 1 person cars clogging up the roads. imo.

As far as climate change is concern and this is only my view....its sometime which is constantly evolving no matter whether man is responsble to a degree for it or not. The world will always heat and cool as it cycles up and down over time.
The Green movement around the world is like any other "thing" which is popular at the time.
Like anything over reaction is the real problem.
Banning farming due to crop and livestock is stupid clssic example, banning river sand mining is one good example of stupidity local Greens argue we effect to fish population doing so, but forget we take lots of water to drink and flush down toilets (criminal in my view) in the meantime the rivers silt up with trees falling into them causing more worst envrionmental degredation.
Hunter Rivers NSW and Ovens rivers Vic are both good examples.

We all jump up and down demanding Govs do more for both sides of the fence but do we actually get involved in creating change ourselves (without Gov handouts) home solar is one good example I hear people whinging about.
Don't get me wrong I like polluting trucks, trains and still love riding bikes everwhere.
Its bloody cold where we are currently staying and I see the neighbours constantly going in a out of their houses driving 2 mins up the road to buy this or that or drop little Johnny off at football. Yes I know everyone is busy and haven't got time to smell the flowers

Personally I prefer to walk to the shops or ride down the road.
Yeah I do drink Soymilk (have done for 40 years, Asthma) and love Tofu but last night tucked in the biggest Scotch fillet steak I could eat.

[five 7]

Hey mate thanks for the reply, be good to have a topic thats not comings and going of Covid for a change.. personally feel the whole climate thing is about $$$$ and control over us.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by five 7

Hey mate thanks for the reply, be good to have a topic thats not comings and going of Covid for a change.. personally feel the whole climate thing is about $$$$ and control over us.

The whole carbon credit thing is BS imo, just made companies like BP go buy green technology and bury it, to cash in.
Sell tickets on a plane and plant a tree really ! I know of several cyclist (another forum) who bag ICE vehicles and actively promote vandalism. Then travel 4 6 times a year by plane to Europe. but they bought carbon credits to offset their travel.

My biggest concern now is water rights and who owns them in this country.

[five 7]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

The whole carbon credit thing is BS imo, just made companies like BP go buy green technology and bury it, to cash in.
Sell tickets on a plane and plant a tree really ! I know of several cyclist (another forum) who bag ICE vehicles and actively promote vandalism. Then travel 4 6 times a year by plane to Europe. but they bought carbon credits to offset their travel.

My biggest concern now is water rights and who owns them in this country.

Same as the net zero carbon pipe dream, impossible in the real world and even more so with out India and China on board.

[slowsnake]

Bit of a change from the other threads!
The rights to our water ( what does that even mean ) belong to the big Canadian and American Pension funds, that's what I read somewhere, not sure when, but everyone is entitled to food, water and shelter, but at a reasonable cost, and not have to worry about planting a few crops, or growing a few sheep or pigs or have chooks.

But to have to buy water for your farm, from an overseas company, water that has fallen from the sky onto Australian soil, that has then been put onto the stock exchange or some type of licensing system is bull****!..in fact its a bloody disgrace, never mind the Chinese owned rice farms in/on or near the Qld/NSW border, who divert half a river into their ponds, that too is bull****!...



Cheers King Billy

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by five 7

Same as the net zero carbon pipe dream, impossible in the real world and even more so with out India and China on board.

Reminds me of the Nescafe advert with George Clooney they're pushing at the moment,
Nescafe to be carbon neutral by 2022. Yeah right, Not going to acheive that flying him around the world promoting the stuff and those little plastic pod things they sell WTF.
The town of Yackandandah down here claims to be carbon neutral, I've yet to work out how considering most of the residents and Govco employee who live there commuter to Wodonga by car. I don't see to many solar panels on roofs there either.
Now Bedrock, I could believe that was carbon neutral except for dinosaur f*rts.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

As far as climate change is concern and this is only my view....its sometime which is constantly evolving no matter whether man is responsble to a degree for it or not. The world will always heat and cool as it cycles up and down over time.

There's been Two previous Ice Ages, SO I would Think Climate Change is one of the Few Constants in Life...

Though, I'm pretty sure some of Mankinds Actions over the last century (or so) have hastened the process ....

[Citroënbender]

I told my mother, when I grow up I want to be a musician. She said “You can’t have it both ways!

The “It’s got to be 100% our way or you’re wrong,wrong, wrong” rallying cries of extreme environmentalism I believe do more harm than good.

Someone should be doing a time-interval study of a large sample of these allegedly die-hard agitants, I’ve got my suspicions about how many will be keeping the faith in twenty years.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I’ve got my suspicions about how many will be keeping the faith in twenty years.

Just like the 60s hippy age, all those hippys now are running corporations.

[lra]

Climate change is real.
Scientists have just discovered, by tree ring growths, that there was a 30 year drought around Perth back in the 1400s.
And they have identified a 5 metre crocodile found west of Toowoomba that went extinct 5,000,000 years ago, due to the area drying up.
Wish I had been there in a DeLorean, or British phone box to see the placard waving protesters of the time.

[Ben73]

Is climate change real? Yeah probably. Am I rushing out to buy the most efficient car possible? No.
When you look at how much private transport adds to the overall pollution levels, it's not huge. My car using an extra litre or 2 per 100km isn't going to make a difference.

Even if climate change isn't real, I think reducing the amount of pollution in cities is a good thing. I like the idea of electric cars, hybrids and other forms of transport like bicycle and walking.
I don't agree with banning ICE vehicles. They should still be an option.

I'm also a fan of urban design and town planning. Modern countries like Australia, NZ and USA are built for cars. Cycling and walking are not appropriate for majority of the population.
I think we need to look at this in future expansions of our cities. More people out of cars is a good thing. Just think how much more fun driving around cities would be is the traffic was cut in half.
Cyclist and fast moving traffic should be separated on main roads. To me that also means on arterial roads that have a speedlimit of 60 or more. On slow speed limit roads they should be able to mingle.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by five 7

PS. I'm waiting with baited breath for a ban against volcanos its coming soon.

Please don't ban volcanoes.....

Koenigsegg and Geely Want to Go Right Ahead With Making Volcano Fuel
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/41095/...g-volcano-fuel

[shedcoupe]

The fretting can cease now.
The solution - a giant nuclear-powered superyacht chock full of smart rich people holding a salon.
It's got a quantum computer !
Presumably there's lashings of holistic synergy to match.
I'm so relieved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR_EfughZFg

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

The fretting can cease now.
The solution - a giant nuclear-powered superyacht chock full of smart rich people holding a salon.
It's got a quantum computer !
Presumably there's lashings of holistic synergy to match.
I'm so relieved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR_EfughZFg

God help us all.

I like how Europe is always telling us about our polluting ways as they quite happily use neclear energy.
Great whle its working not so good when things go amiss.

[shedcoupe]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

.... nucular energy.
Great while its working not so good when things go amiss.

It's actually not so bad when compared to other energy sources.
Burning coal emits uranium, radium and thorium in the soot plume.
And simply put, energy degrades environments regardless of where it comes from.
Trying to manage environmental impacts to achieve 'sustainability' is in fact unnatural maan.

A species will use the resources in its environmental niche to increase its numbers and then when the resources are gone the numbers crash.
That's the natural dynamic world, not the hipsters' pipedream of Kumbaya-singing peace and love.
Great idea, but people are selfish when they're cold and hungry.
They don't need to be of course but despite individual brilliance people are dumb.

Mostly. Just have a look at the clown show that is Canberra.
Orange wigs, big shoes, little bicycles. And we vote them in.

[zilo]

Don't have to worry about climate change.

I cannot think of any environmental issue that is not a direct consequence of increasing global population.

[MITCHAY]

I think like a lot of issues, the vocal extremes of both sides of the argument just drown everything out.

I don't really doubt it at all, the real issue is to what end do you do you think it is a problem and what if anything do you do about it.

A lot of people confuse weather and climate and pick the data to use it to justify their position one way or the other.

We're not going to turn off the lights over night when it comes to our resources sector and I feel it is inevitable we're going to have a lot of pressure put on us from larger economies and be dragged along anyway.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I think like a lot of issues, the vocal extremes of both sides of the argument just drown everything out.

What I find frustrating is there is no debate about how to tackle the problem. The climate change zealots are 'my way or the highway' and any alternative idea gets ****canned and the person proposing it labelled a climate denier.

Bjorn Lomborg is a great example, put out a doco not long after Al Gore's with lots of great ideas and tech that could be used to mitigate the impact. Was lampooned by the greenies because he deviated from the renewables mantra. The tech exists to pull CO2 out of the air, and can be scaled TODAY. But nobody will do it because carbon capture is seen as climate denial. If its not solar or wind, its not seen as a viable solution.

If we were truly serious about tackling the problem, no solution should be off the table. If we'd built nuclear power plants instead of going all in on renewables, we'd probably seeing a significantly downward trajectory in terms of emissions. Instead, countries in the EU are shutting down nuclear power plants and using coal or natural gas while they wait for renewables to replace the lost capacity.

If we can be choosy about how to tackle climate change, then it cant that big a problem...

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by b0son

What I find frustrating is there is no debate about how to tackle the problem. The climate change zealots are 'my way or the highway' and any alternative idea gets ****canned and the person proposing it labelled a climate denier.

Bjorn Lomborg is a great example, put out a doco not long after Al Gore's with lots of great ideas and tech that could be used to mitigate the impact. Was lampooned by the greenies because he deviated from the renewables mantra. The tech exists to pull CO2 out of the air, and can be scaled TODAY. But nobody will do it because carbon capture is seen as climate denial. If its not solar or wind, its not seen as a viable solution.

If we were truly serious about tackling the problem, no solution should be off the table. If we'd built nuclear power plants instead of going all in on renewables, we'd probably seeing a significantly downward trajectory in terms of emissions. Instead, countries in the EU are shutting down nuclear power plants and using coal or natural gas while they wait for renewables to replace the lost capacity.

If we can be choosy about how to tackle climate change, then it cant that big a problem...

That is the problem, no solid plans from either side. There is another side to the climate change zealots and both extremes **** me to tears.

One wants to shut a very big part of our economy down overnight and the other just wants to keep digging **** up to no end. All this is denying the reality that there is going to be more coal power overseas if not here and from what I understand it would be preferable they burn our **** rather than other exports

Nuclear is taboo here but we should give some serious consideration to it but it's not even on the table.

We can mine the fuel, we are geologically and politically stable, have plenty of space to put them and dump the waste in the middle of ****en nowhere.

[T3rminator]

Isn't someone in the pacific suing us for our lack of actions on climate change?

[Rallye Sport]

Water and population are the two that stand out to me.

I've worked outdoors or the past 30 years or so in Horticulture, Viticulture and I've also dabbled in the mortar trades.
We'd often get rained off for the day but I haven't seen that for a while now.
I'm seeing alot of change in the trees, we have a problem with Chlorotic decline in large Eucalyptus due to the ground water becoming alkaline. Another is a fungal infection affecting Norfolk pines. Its always been there but due to a change in rainfall and water quality the trees are becoming weakened and allowing infection to take over. We're loosing alot of significant trees in Perth and with all of our wisdom we can only apply band aid measures to prop them up for the time being.

Viticulture and wine making is a canary in the coal mine at the moment. A degree or two of variance can wreak havoc on the vines and in turn fruit and product quality. Alot of research is being done in this field at the moment and will have a trickle down effect to the rest of agriculture.
I'd say the days of lush bentgrass greens on golf courses are numbered aswell.

Unfortunately we seem to be incapable of change though, the backlash on urban forest policies has been extreme, "Not in my backyard!" is the cry when it comes to planting trees that, shock horror, they may drop leaves on my irrigated front lawn which serves no other purpose than to keep the lawn mower regular.

...and then theres population... Too many monkeys in the jungle

[slowsnake]

Which ever way you look at it we, us humans are to blame, we live in a society now that is just plain bloody greedy, selfish, self-centred and impatient!

Henry David Thoroux had the right idea, and the Amish too, and they both know/knew what the go is, with land and nature, and what happens when you dont respect it.


Cheers Contemplative King Billy

[smoo]

Originally Posted by five 7

Appears the Mung bean and Tofu mob are running the show here in NZ now, we are getting endless streets loosing lanes to cycle ways but no cycles on them, the congestion caused and blocked up traffic lights must waste fuel and time, i don't mind pushy's they are fun to ride but there is a time and place, NZ is not suited to have bikes as a form of transport for most.
We now have a second harbour crossing walking cycles only, that our Govt found 700m to fund (there has been no survey done) for "possibly" 3k of walkers and cyclists. yet there are roads and bridges down around the country with no time frame to fix, talk about the lunatics running the asylum.
We then have a whole generation now (from constant fear mongering) that thinks we will be under multiple feet of water in the not to distant future or roasting under ever increasing temperature, this same generation will protest off shore mining at a well known beach near me holding up surfboards with no mining signs on them wearing clothing/wetsuits made from petro chemicals and they drove there in cars to protest, and will upgrade a cell phone yearly for no reason .
I just feel it has got out of control they now want to limit our farming production which is NZ s main form of income, cow farts are bad apparently, talk about shooting your self in the foot, do i think we can live cleaner yes but this is not the way.
PS. I'm waiting with baited breath for a ban against volcanos its coming soon.

No western country is immune from the rot of the self destructive left. But the best thing any NZer with a decent degree/trade/work ethic can do is cash in on the disgusting over priced property market and move to Australia.
The country doesn't have the population to sustain the costly and failing social experiments the clueless narcissistic bitch is putting the joint through which sees ideology trump reality. Things will be a whole lot worse when the complicit media secure her a third term next election.

[Ross 1]

Originally Posted by smoo

The country doesn't have the population to sustain the costly and failing social experiments the clueless narcissistic bitch is putting the joint through which sees ideology trump reality. Things will be a whole lot worse when the complicit media secure her a third term next election.

And the alternative at the moment is a racist moron who only panders to rich old white people.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Ross 1

And the alternative at the moment is a racist moron who only panders to rich old white people.

I don't know who you're talking about. These days anyone not quoting Marx and refusing to raise their pale fist in solidarity with BLM is racist.
But I do note the irony of your post... Who has benefited from Jacindas shameful property market the most... rich old white people.

[Metdevil]

It seems that 'climate change' is being confused with 'global warming'. The two are not interchangeable and refer to two different things. If you're not aware of the difference, I'd say you're also not in any position to debate either.

[aussiblue]

It's a science based fact see https://theconversation.com/the-five...-denial-122893 and https://grist.org/article/skeptics-2/

And as a FCPA (accounts are statistically sown to be dull colourless and boring) as well as an economist I am hardly a mung bean or tofu eater.

[lumen8]

'Climate change' legislation will lead to more Amazons etc across more sectors, such as farming and industry.

And im talking about the Bezos kind not the rainforest.

This may be the intended result, and I think its naïve for people to think politicians dont do the bidding of big business, and some of the powerful people who form think tanks and NGOs, who also happen to be some of the worlds wealthiest also.

What do people think happened to the MDB after all thats gone on there... the permanent water price is 3x higher and foreign corporations own most of it now. Little guy attempting to start out now hasnt got much of a hope of doing much there when permanent water is 6k plus a megalitre, while corporate plantings keep expanding, like almonds as far as the eye can see between Mildura and Swan Hill, with pumps the size of some peoples cars.

Most of the newer developments since the water buy back (because of impending climate change doom) are foreign corporations / funds managers. They have plenty of other peoples money to play with.

Gates is apparently the largest private farmland owner in the US now. He pushes for climate change action or mentions it as a concern all the time.

The day will come where private smaller farms will not be able to offset their carbon when demanded to like big corps can. The little guy isnt in on the carbon credit schemes, they wont be able to by 100 acres of solar panels or afford to buy into turbine farms etc as legislation gets tighter and more demanding.. they will sell up, and the big fish will gobble it up a little bit at a time.

"you will own nothing and be happy" - World Economic Forum.

"We need a great reset" - Klaus Schwab.

Some of the stuff the WEF puts out on their own channels would seem like conspiracy theories if you tell people the same things yourself, until you direct them to the source of these ideas and they see its official WEF. Owning nothing, transhumanism, and so on.

Our own health minister was director of strategy for Klaus' beloved WEF.

Anyway I could go on further, but I wont.

[Pis-ton broke]

i don,t support either side of the climate change argument. there are so many "experts " that argue for either side, and i simply don,t know who to believe, and then there's people playing politics with it. and the media bs.

personal i think the earth has cycles of heating and cooling. watch this 40 second vidoe in 1945 of hawkesbury river in drought . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gNXrRGKlxs if this happen today, could you image the fracas the greenies would cause?

but that said, man isn,t helping himself by, striping brazil rainforest and others, people being mass consumers and a throw away society, built in obsolescence , over population and corrupt politicians. just obvious things i,ve noticed.