What happened to Australia's car?

[Franco Cozzo]

Good clip, worth a watch, a little bit of auto history from Australia.

[GCRXR6]

The same thing happened to Holden, as did happen to AWA, HMV, Bonds, Craft etc, etc, etc. We buy cheaper imports, our locally made products either cease to exist, or move offshore.

We hear the comment all too often, "They only think about the dollar". No kidding Sherlock.

a...The manufacturer must think about profit. That's why one goes into business?
b...Don't you think about the dollar when you buy cheaper items?

We all have a part in the success and failure of a business. That's life.

[jpd80]

Value adding, we close plants here and happily buy $60k utes from Thailand and let manufacturers do it.

[jphanna]

it wasnt until i started buying my own cars that we realize that for the same $$$$,

other manufacturers were putting more goodies in their cars. having said that.....i have owned

Vh - valiant
VL - holden
VE - holden
XE - Ford
EA - Ford
FG - ford

and although non of these cars could be considered practical or user friendly, compared to SUV etc, they are the TRADITIONAL aussie style car. big engine, rear wheel drive.

just not relevant for modern life anymore.

[XD 351 Ute]

My opinion only, but less traditional Aussie Buyers each passing year doesn't help.

Granted there was some uptake of our Aussie machinery, but a larger percentage preferred to have vehicles similar to what they used to drive back home.

Couple that with brand snobbery, cheaper and better offerings
from other manufacturers, and that probably sums most of it up.

Our manufacturing offshoots also managed to do their best in digging their own graves
by poor customer service, cost cutting on items that SHOULD have been much better
than they were, X series door handles I hear the cry, but I've never broken one.. ;
E series cooling systems, B series brakes, suspension bushes etc, etc.
The Territory really had a chance to shine, but suffered from the above in a number of
areas.

Dealerships and after-sales servicing are a category all on their own.
My local blue ovoid dealer lost my patronage forever after issues with purchasing a
second hand vehicle.

Anyway, just my thoughts..

Ed

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by XD 351 Ute

My opinion only, but less traditional Aussie Buyers each passing year doesn't help.

Granted there was some uptake of our Aussie machinery, but a larger percentage preferred to have vehicles similar to what they used to drive back home.

Couple that with brand snobbery, cheaper and better offerings
from other manufacturers, and that probably sums most of it up.

Our manufacturing offshoots also managed to do their best in digging their own graves
by poor customer service, cost cutting on items that SHOULD have been much better
than they were, X series door handles I hear the cry, but I've never broken one.. ;
E series cooling systems, B series brakes, suspension bushes etc, etc.
The Territory really had a chance to shine, but suffered from the above in a number of
areas.

Dealerships and after-sales servicing are a category all on their own.
My local blue ovoid dealer lost my patronage forever after issues with purchasing a
second hand vehicle.

Anyway, just my thoughts..

Ed

When Ford took their design and specs of the Territory to the US .... Ford gave them the go ahead ... albeit on a small budget.

Ford US couldn't have the Aussies build something better than them ... so they came up with the Freestyle but in "what they thought would be a better packaged platform being FWD based". It was a flop and was as shocking vehicle from the get-go.

Now if they hadn't have been the way they were ... and actually took on the Aussie design/platform ... and Globalised it back then (keeping it true to the Aussie design) .... it would have been a very different story indeed.

Especially when you look at the sales figures in Australia compared to the "global" Toyota Kluger platform .... The Territory outsold Kluger by a country mile.

Now if that was offered to all the Global RHD market ... and had some $$$$ through at it to have it adapted to the LHD market as well. Things would have been very different.

But ... as mentioned ... the carmakers in the US don't seem to accept anything outside of the US.

Even though everyone in the US has been asking to get the BARRA and its RWD pletform for years ... seems to keep falling on deaf ears.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

When Ford took their design and specs of the Territory to the US .... Ford gave them the go ahead ... albeit on a small budget.

Ford US couldn't have the Aussies build something better than them ... so they came up with the Freestyle but in "what they thought would be a better packaged platform being FWD based". It was a flop and was as shocking vehicle from the get-go.

Now if they hadn't have been the way they were ... and actually took on the Aussie design/platform ... and Globalised it back then (keeping it true to the Aussie design) .... it would have been a very different story indeed.

Especially when you look at the sales figures in Australia compared to the "global" Toyota Kluger platform .... The Territory outsold Kluger by a country mile.

Now if that was offered to all the Global RHD market ... and had some $$$$ through at it to have it adapted to the LHD market as well. Things would have been very different.

But ... as mentioned ... the carmakers in the US don't seem to accept anything outside of the US.

Even though everyone in the US has been asking to get the BARRA and its RWD pletform for years ... seems to keep falling on deaf ears.

In 2011, the D3 based Freestyle and Five hundred were reworked into the new
FWD/AWD Explorer and Taurus / Lincoln MKS / PI car and PI UTE.
That move allowed Ford to close down two BOF plants and move a ton of buyers
onto an existing platform and reworked Vehicles, Chicago AP went to three shifts
and Ford never looked back.

[Sprintey]

The one I liked in Ford NA at that time was the Flex, great take on the wagon/SUV.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In 2011, the D3 based Freestyle and Five hundred were reworked into the new
FWD/AWD Explorer and Taurus / Lincoln MKS / PI car and PI UTE.
That move allowed Ford to close down two BOF plants and move a ton of buyers
onto an existing platform and reworked Vehicles, Chicago AP went to three shifts
and Ford never looked back.

It took them till 2011 to start getting it right after the Territory was pitched to them in the early 2000's.

[Franco Cozzo]

With the Americans refusing to acknowledge someone's done good quality work and not implementing it locally that's not unique to American companies.

That's every corporate and we have a similar culture, management has a chip on their shoulder and an ego problem.

It's all in the messaging, the trick in dealing with ego is making people think that it was a great idea and their idea in the first place, get them involved, give them the feeling of ownership.

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

When Ford took their design and specs of the Territory to the US .... Ford gave them the go ahead ... albeit on a small budget.

Ford US couldn't have the Aussies build something better than them ... so they came up with the Freestyle but in "what they thought would be a better packaged platform being FWD based". It was a flop and was as shocking vehicle from the get-go.

Now if they hadn't have been the way they were ... and actually took on the Aussie design/platform ... and Globalised it back then (keeping it true to the Aussie design) .... it would have been a very different story indeed.

Especially when you look at the sales figures in Australia compared to the "global" Toyota Kluger platform .... The Territory outsold Kluger by a country mile.

Now if that was offered to all the Global RHD market ... and had some $$$$ through at it to have it adapted to the LHD market as well. Things would have been very different.

But ... as mentioned ... the carmakers in the US don't seem to accept anything outside of the US.

Even though everyone in the US has been asking to get the BARRA and its RWD pletform for years ... seems to keep falling on deaf ears.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking our Terry or the Falcon, I think they are great vehicles, admittedly with their faults, but very well suited to our country and way of life. I have 4 utes and a sedan, from XD to FGII.

Most of my post was based on feedback from yakking to people, and first hand experience / knowledge of such issues.

I love my Falcons, have never owned anything else bar a few RX7s, and was wrapt when I managed to convince my sister and her family to buy one of the first Territories when they were new.

It suited her family purposes perfectly, but the various quality and niggling issues soon gave her non-Ford husband the ammunition he needed to get rid of it.

They then bought a Hyundai Santa Fe.
The rest is history.

Ed

[guzzis3]

I really get cranky every time some idiot car exec says they were making the wrong car.

They said australians had shifted to small cars.Look at all the cruisers parked on every street.

They said we ween't buying sedans,look how many camry's toyota sells.

When I finally decided to end my NF fairlane the first cars I looked at were falcons. The quality was shockingly bad and the dealers treated me like dirt. So I grit my teeth and move on.

There is no mystery in why toyota have a 20% market share. No one has ever accused them of building stylish comfortable or involving cars to drive. They are reliable and at the lower end cost to maintain. They are a safe option compared to most others.

If holden and ford bothered to build better quality cars and/or stood by them when they went wrong they would still be significant players.

Of course I can't talk. I bought a subaru :(

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm very anti SUV - they're just smaller platforms on stilts with the same engine and trans out of their smaller siblings except it handles worse, uses more fuel and it goes slower.

Ie - I'd have a Falcon over a Territory, a Mazda 2 over the CX3 etc.

The problem is me and my kind are obviously the minority, we need to consider that the average motorist has no clue and buys cars based on the in car entertainment system and it sits high so the missus can see over other cars in traffic when she's got the cubs for the school run.

What we lost with the Falcon, Commodore and Caprice was large cars with the basic formula of RWD and big engines, we're talking BMW 7 series (SWB/LWB) size cars, sure they didn't have the technology but you paid less than a quarter of the price for it too.

A BMW 730d SWB STARTS at $199,900 for the povvo spec diesel with a whole 195KW.

Caprice was a bigger car and had 304KW, 6.2L V8 for around $60K, discount of the century.

Sure it didn't get put together as nicely, but the AC is cold AF, it rides 75% as good as the 7 series and it'll blow the back ****en tyres off itself endlessly.

[chevypower]

They didn’t innovate to keep up with evolving trends. When they tried to adapt, it was just rebadged Daewoos. They didn’t do anything to add value or stand out. Back in the day you could take one vehicle and it could do it all. It was your family car/wagon, taxi, police car, sports car, limo, hearse... whatever you wanted. Now people want a car that is more purpose built, which means offering more products. Holden didn’t offer what people really wanted. The burden isn’t on the consumer to blindly follow tradition. That means you need global class leading products. Take any Holden product, there was always something better from a competitor. Acadia? I would take the Pathfinder. Equinox? I would take just about anything else. 2021 Tahoe, Silverado, and C8 Corvette? Well Holden doesn’t have the sense to offer those. They would be too profitable.

[marty351]

Had an aussie been employed at Detroit and designed the barra,ba and territory there, it may have had a better chance. But due to Murican arrogance and the fact it wasn't designed there but in some low end backwater, well, you know the rest.

Sometimes the yanks are their own worst enemy, and I have no sympathy left for them. They deserve their fate.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by marty351

Had an aussie been employed at Detroit and designed the barra,ba and territory there...

You haven't heard of Jacques Nasser then

....1999 to 2001 he served as Ford's CEO and president.

He is more associated with signing-off the AU Falcon but given that the Barra and BA was on the road in 2002 he was the head of Ford when they were developed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Nasser

Anyway, Australia never had it's own car.

Whether a Holden or locally produced Ford (or Camry or Valiant or P76) they were always under the control of the Non-Aussie parent companies, or perhaps constrained is a better term. Imagine instead of Holden and Ford (Aus) we actually had an Australian car company that controlled it's own destiny. So rather than competing with each other in our little corner of the global market place they actually competed with other nations car makers. I think that would have been a very different story with a much happier ending. Never going to happen now though.

[LG17]

Years ago import tariffs were removed which opened up Australia to a plethora of choices which, financially speaking, changed the whole scenario. Before then imports were a fair bit dearer than the local offerings.

[MercuryT]

People bought **** like Territories and other SUV rubbish.

They are school run vehicles much better done by overseas.

Simple.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

People bought **** like Territories and other SUV rubbish.

They are school run vehicles much better done by overseas.

Simple.

Again, Territory vs Freestyle. No contest.

[MercuryT]

Buy a real 4wd if you need one.

Hilux and Ranger sales are massive as these guys just buy them anyway.

[MercuryT]

What does Freestyle mean?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

What does Freestyle mean?

More style free than Freestyle

It was a US Ford crossover/SUV based on the Taurus/500 sedan platform that was developed at the same time as the Aussie's did the Falcon based Territory.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Freestyle

[MercuryT]

BTW if I was a hick I'd buy a Ranger.

Stinger much better car for me if wagon.

[MercuryT]

Looks horrible.

I'm confused as the Territory has always looked terrible. (handy cheap SUV sure)

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Looks horrible.

I'm confused as the Territory has always looked terrible. (handy cheap SUV sure)

yes but you think modern Mustangs are attractive so your taste is very questionable

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Raptor

yes but you think modern Mustangs are attractive so your taste is very questionable

Look much better than the **** you are discussing.

Taste indeed.

[MercuryT]

Mustangs are great?

Why the anger now we finally have good looking Fords?

No more dress up Falcon rubbish.

[MercuryT]

Trust me your dressed up sedans (including Holden) will be overtaken by Mustangs and Camaros (Maybe even Corvettes) in no time.

Should have happened years ago.

[MercuryT]

Our perfomance cars here have been rubbish for years.

It's awesome we FINALLY get hold of proper Ford and GM products, very cool, hopefully at an affordable price (below 70 Commodore HSVs wanted that)

[Crazy Dazz]

Australia SHOULD be making Steel, Aluminium, Copper, etc. Furthermore we should be making the products make from those materials. This includes Cars.
Obviously in order to do this, you need to be making a lot, making them well, and selling around the globe.
We SHOULD also have a massive ship-building industry here.
Australian expertise in the Mining Industry is acknowledged and sought world-wide, yet we make none of the heavy equipment here.

For some reason, successive governments, of both colours, going back 50+ years, decided it was just too hard for Australia to have a strong Manufacturing sector, and put it all in the "too hard" basket.

The actual problems run very deep. Our cost of land is fekking ludicrous, the cost of housing too high, and the cost of general living. So our labour is too expensive, and in many of our industries damn inefficient. That, and the complete lack of government incentive to do business in this country.

I'm not saying we should have kept building Falcons. But we should be building Rangers, some updated version of the what the Territory should have become, and who knows what else. Also keep in mind that the last Falcon ad I recall seeing on TV was from the 80's "I'm Glad I Drive a Falcon." Maybe if they'd spent a bit more on marketing their products???

Ultimately it came down to this:
The Labour Party believes that all big corporations (such as Car Manufacturers) work directly for satan, and was far to interested in pandering to unions and the greens.
The Liberal party hated the unions, saw no votes in the manufacturing industries, and obviously couldn't get big enough "donations"/bribes from the corporations.
So in the end nobody stuck up for manufacturing in this country.