Single use plastic bag ban by Government

[Cav]

I have a simple query.

Can someone tell me, using logical argument, why govmints ban single use plastic bags and what is the desired outcome they are trying to achieve?

[GO FURTHER]

Too many single use plastic bags are ending up in our oceans and killing marine life.

However, I feel there is a more hidden motive behind it.

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Too many single use plastic bags are ending up in our oceans and killing marine life.

However, I feel there is a more hidden motive behind it.

Yeah aliens want us to lock away all our remaining petrochemicals in plastic so it makes it easy for them to take away with them next time they visit

[Cav]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Too many single use plastic bags are ending up in our oceans and killing marine life.

However, I feel there is a more hidden motive behind it.

Can you direct me to evidence where this applies to single use plastic bags and not other plastic bags?

If what you say is correct then we should ban ALL plastic bags.

So why is the ban limited to single use bags?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Cav

Can you direct me to evidence where this applies to single use plastic bags and not other plastic bags?

If what you say is correct then we should ban ALL plastic bags.

So why is the ban limited to single use bags?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Cav, of course, all plastic bags whether they be single or multiple use that ends up in our oceans are bad for our marine life.

BUT we have to start somewhere to stop this plastic pollution.
It is estimated that 10% of all the plastic bags that have ever been produced are now in or lying at the bottom of our oceans.
An astonishing 32% of the 78 million tons of plastic packaging produced makes its way into the ocean every year.

If you take your own multiple-use plastic bags to the supermarket just once a week to carry your shopping, then they are at least used 52 times per year.

There is no question that single-use plastic bags, plastic straws, bottles and cups etc, are worst than multiple use items and contribute a greater percentage of plastic waste in our oceans.

The world belongs to the company or person who can invent a replacement for plastic shopping bags and other single-use items that are not harmful to our marine life and is biodegradable, and cost-effective as plastic to manufacture.
(Paper bags simply don't have the strength).

Invent this... And you will be one of the World's richest men.

[Paul302351]

If you think its to save the environment you have rocks in your head.

Its a money making scheme.

[Paul302351]

so there you go

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by Cav

I have a simple query.

Can someone tell me, using logical argument, why govmints ban single use plastic bags and what is the desired outcome they are trying to achieve?

Dunno Cav, maybe something to do with this:



These were found in a dead whale's stomach. The whale was washed up on a beach, they didn't harpoon it just to dissect it.



Plastic and micro-plastics in the marine environment are bad for everyone and everything, especially those animals that ingest them thinking they're food, and then those animals that eat those animals, and then the humans that eat those.

[Cav]

Nice pics mate, but I fail to see single use bags on them

Are you in favour of banning all plastic bags to save whales from dying?

Originally Posted by Ratmick

Dunno Cav, maybe something to do with this:

image

These were found in a dead whale's stomach. The whale was washed up on a beach, they didn't harpoon it just to dissect it.

image

Plastic and micro-plastics in the marine environment are bad for everyone and everything, especially those animals that ingest them thinking they're food, and then those animals that eat those animals, and then the humans that eat those.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by Cav

Nice pics mate, but I fail to see single use bags on them

Are you in favour of banning all plastic bags to save whales from dying?

There's plenty of plastic bags in both pics mate, put your glasses on

...I can't tell how many times they have been used though.

Bags are a part of the problem and a very visible one, so an easy one to start with.

We've been using multi-use bags for our weekly grocery shop for years so no great drama in my case, although I do need to remember to take one in whenever I go in during the week for more than one item as buying a new bag every time I am in there will lose its allure when we're replaced all our old ratty Woolies and Coles freezer bags as the ones I buy have zips.

The main issue is all plastics, I spent a day on St Kilda beach dodging used syringes picking up rubbish last year and the main culprits (apart from syringes) were cigarette butts, drink bottle tops, old cigarette lighters, plastic spoons/straws and countless small plastic nurdles that had escaped from a plastics factory somewhere up the Yarra that hadn't made it further than the beach. The nurdles are about the size of a lentil, or smaller. The issue with these is that they're eaten by things that are eaten by things that eat them. It kills them by blocking their gut plus they slowly release their constituent chemicals back into the water.

Rather than poking holes in various government's attempts to do something, rather than nothing (or just poking holes in arguments) you don't think it'd be better to do something rather than nothing? They may not have a perfect solution apart form wiping the earth of all human life, but there needs to be more thought put into things apart from using the oceans as a dumping ground for all the stuff we don't want.

FWIW though the main issue is not household rubbish, it's industrial.

...tackling single-use household bags makes for easier point scoring for Pollies though

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

There's plenty of plastic bags in both pics mate, put your glasses on

...I can't tell how many times they have been used though.

Bags are a part of the problem and a very visible one, so an easy one to start with.

We've been using multi-use bags for our weekly grocery shop for years so no great drama in my case, although I do need to remember to take one in whenever I go in during the week for more than one item as buying a new bag every time I am in there will lose its allure when we're replaced all our old ratty Woolies and Coles freezer bags as the ones I buy have zips.

The main issue is all plastics, I spent a day on St Kilda beach dodging used syringes picking up rubbish last year and the main culprits (apart from syringes) were cigarette butts, drink bottle tops, old cigarette lighters, plastic spoons/straws and countless small plastic nurdles that had escaped from a plastics factory somewhere up the Yarra that hadn't made it further than the beach. The nurdles are about the size of a lentil, or smaller. The issue with these is that they're eaten by things that are eaten by things that eat them. It kills them by blocking their gut plus they slowly release their constituent chemicals back into the water.

Rather than poking holes in various government's attempts to do something, rather than nothing (or just poking holes in arguments) you don't think it'd be better to do something rather than nothing? They may not have a perfect solution apart form wiping the earth of all human life, but there needs to be more thought put into things apart from using the oceans as a dumping ground for all the stuff we don't want.

FWIW though the main issue is not household rubbish, it's industrial.

...tackling single-use household bags makes for easier point scoring for Pollies though

I am sick of govmints treating us like idiots and banning stuff that has no effect except to give them the high moral ground.

It is all about gesture politics that means nothing, achieves nothing and I have yet to meet someone who agrees that we should keep using single use plastic bags.

The reason I suspect is that people no longer think about what is happening. Add in a media that also has an agenda and we never have a proper debate on anything anymore where we exchange facts and logic to arrive at some point where all concerns are out in the open.

Are there any disadvantages in banning single use plastic bags?

Well how about this one ...

People will die.

Mention that to people and they just shrug.

That's right, they shrug.

Does this not mean that people care more about the environment and animals that they do about their fellow human beings.

A 2012 University of Pennsylvania study found San Francisco’s 2007 plastic bag ban killed people because reusable bags increased shoppers’ exposure to harmful bacteria that can infest them. “The San Francisco ban led to, conservatively, 5.4 annual additional deaths,” the authors concluded.

Don't believe me?

Here is the study
http://www.austincontrarian.com/file...-id2196481.pdf

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Cav

Are there any disadvantages in banning single use plastic bags?

Well how about this one ...

People will die.

Mention that to people and they just shrug.

That's right, they shrug.

Does this not mean that people care more about the environment and animals that they do about their fellow human beings.

A 2012 University of Pennsylvania study found San Francisco’s 2007 plastic bag ban killed people because reusable bags increased shoppers’ exposure to harmful bacteria that can infest them. “The San Francisco ban led to, conservatively, 5.4 annual additional deaths,” the authors concluded.

Don't believe me?

Here is the study
http://www.austincontrarian.com/file...-id2196481.pdf

Interesting take on the subject... And not just people dying but getting sick through food poisoning, etc.

I guess from a food safety and handling perspective, shoppers reusing their plastic bags, that are left in the hot boot of a car, where germs and bacteria can multiply and then used for taking fresh produce like fruit and veggies home, might be a health concern.

How many consumers are actually going to clean their reusable bags?

I wonder if the pollies considered that?

[Cav]

This is starting to sound like the same debate on global warming.

Facts don't matter anymore.

Just be glad though that the ban on certain shopping bags will save some turtles from somewhere or other.



And is plastic the REAL PROBLEM?



As you can see, Australia's contribution is negligible.



So tell me again my friends why you agree with the govmint's ban on single use plastic bags and how it will save the environment, whales and turtles while at the same time spreading diseases to human beings.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Cav

I am sick of govmints treating us like idiots and banning stuff that has no effect except to give them the high moral ground.

It is all about gesture politics that means nothing, achieves nothing and I have yet to meet someone who agrees that we should keep using single use plastic bags.

The reason I suspect is that people no longer think about what is happening. Add in a media that also has an agenda and we never have a proper debate on anything anymore where we exchange facts and logic to arrive at some point where all concerns are out in the open.

Are there any disadvantages in banning single use plastic bags?

Well how about this one ...

People will die.

Mention that to people and they just shrug.

That's right, they shrug.

Does this not mean that people care more about the environment and animals that they do about their fellow human beings.

A 2012 University of Pennsylvania study found San Francisco’s 2007 plastic bag ban killed people because reusable bags increased shoppers’ exposure to harmful bacteria that can infest them. “The San Francisco ban led to, conservatively, 5.4 annual additional deaths,” the authors concluded.

Don't believe me?

Here is the study
http://www.austincontrarian.com/file...-id2196481.pdf

Looks like it's been written for a school project.

Ask your friendly microbiologist to take a skin scraping. You will find all those bugs and about a million more.

Don't go to the dunny, it's an e-coli nightmare. But if you don't poo you die...

I bought a new chainsaw bar this morning, I'm still trying to work out why it was covered in plastic. Then I had to spend 10 minutes rummaging around for heavy duty scissors to get the crap off.
We have to start somewhere with this, it's out of control imo.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by Cav

I am sick of govmints treating us like idiots and banning stuff that has no effect except to give them the high moral ground.

It is all about gesture politics that means nothing, achieves nothing and I have yet to meet someone who agrees that we should keep using single use plastic bags.

The reason I suspect is that people no longer think about what is happening. Add in a media that also has an agenda and we never have a proper debate on anything anymore where we exchange facts and logic to arrive at some point where all concerns are out in the open.

Are there any disadvantages in banning single use plastic bags?

Well how about this one ...

People will die.

Mention that to people and they just shrug.

That's right, they shrug.

Does this not mean that people care more about the environment and animals that they do about their fellow human beings.

A 2012 University of Pennsylvania study found San Francisco’s 2007 plastic bag ban killed people because reusable bags increased shoppers’ exposure to harmful bacteria that can infest them. “The San Francisco ban led to, conservatively, 5.4 annual additional deaths,” the authors concluded.

Don't believe me?

Here is the study
http://www.austincontrarian.com/file...-id2196481.pdf

Media Watch covered this recently.
That study wasn't peer reviewed and made unproven links to a spike in infections in one area.

My take is that this ban is a start and that's a good thing.
Yes I think once this change has been in place a while it'll lead to further legislation that'll result in less plastic packaging.
My family has been shopping with multiuse bags or boxes for probably 10 plus years now and it isn't that hard to do.
Shops like Aldi encourage this and it works.
Imho fear of change and a few shockjocks like Jones, Bolt and co are driving what I believe is the illogical resistance to this.

Anything that can reduce or limit the amount of microplastic in the environment has my support.

[gregaust]

Saw a huge billboard sign the other day

"Is this the end of plastic bags , or the start of charging for them ? "

[anobserver]

Virtue signalling, to show the guvmint is 'doing something'.

Cost shifting, to the consumer who will now be paying for them.

[aussiblue]

https://www.der.wa.gov.au/your-envir...lastic-bag-ban I think there should also be a ban on taking them to sea as that where the biggest risk is and people used them as bait bags etc and even without those few idiots that intentionally throw them overboard they are too easily accidentally blow overboard. The look too much like jellyfish that turtles and other threatened marine species eat.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

https://www.der.wa.gov.au/your-envir...lastic-bag-ban I think there should also be a ban on taking them to sea as that where the biggest risk is and people used them as bait bags etc and even without those few idiots that intentionally throw them overboard they are too easily accidentally blow overboard. The look too much like jellyfish that turtles and other threatened marine species eat.

image

Can you direct me to the evidence that this applies to single use plastic bags only please?

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[data_mine]

it's a hollow environmental ploy.

Not saying it's not good to get rid of plastic bags, but there's bigger problems, but they cost money to fix and are hard. banning bags doesn't cost the government anything, makes it look like they're doing something, while not really doing anything at all. And it replaces lightweight biodegradable bags with heavy weight bags that end up in the trash anyway, and the supermarkets can make some extra money on them. It's win for the supermarkets, lose of the environment.

[Franco Cozzo]

Is it from Government or is it from Coles and Safeway? (Its still Safeway to me I don't care for this 'woolworths' nonsense!)

If its just Coles and Safeway then I just won't shop there because I'm not interested in making my shopping experience inconvenient - I don't want to carry bags around in my car and have to bring them to the store.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Is it from Government or is it from Coles and Safeway? (Its still Safeway to me I don't care for this 'woolworths' nonsense!)

If its just Coles and Safeway then I just won't shop there because I'm not interested in making my shopping experience inconvenient - I don't want to carry bags around in my car and have to bring them to the store.

It is a Government ban from 1st of July in Victoria, following other states.
Coles and Safeway just elected to start the ban earlier.

You don't need to carry your own muliple use bags in your car... You can elect to buy them each time from the supermarket at check out, although that gets expensive.

[Ben73]

I heard the 'enviro' bags have to be used 150 times before they break even on the benefits to the environment.
As for the reusable plastic bags, they are thicker and larger than a regular plastic bags. I wonder how many times they have to be used before being better than a regular plastic bag?

Also surely everyone else has that place in their house where hundreds of plastic bags are stashed for future use? Mine is the bottom shelf in my pantry.

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Cav, of course, all plastic bags whether they be single or multiple use that ends up in our oceans are bad for our marine life.

BUT we have to start somewhere to stop this plastic pollution.
It is estimated that 10% of all the plastic bags that have ever been produced are now in or lying at the bottom of our oceans.
An astonishing 32% of the 78 million tons of plastic packaging produced makes its way into the ocean every year.

No doubt plastic bags are not good for the environment, but what annoys me is when I buy a small product that has 200g of plastic around it. I understand sometimes it's needed for shipping and such, but some of it seams to be way overkill.
I'd like to see companies start cutting back excessive packaging.

[naddis01]

Lets ban plastic bags and replace them with plastic bags. Sounds like a great idea to me.

I don't know about the rest of you but we reuse the 'single' use bags at home as garbage bags. I guess we will just need to buy more single use garbage bags now.

The early adoption of this by the major supermarkets (in NSW) is just an easy way to pass the cost on to the consumer.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Lets ban plastic bags and replace them with plastic bags. Sounds like a great idea to me.

I don't know about the rest of you but we reuse the 'single' use bags at home as garbage bags. I guess we will just need to buy more single use garbage bags now.

The early adoption of this by the major supermarkets (in NSW) is just an easy way to pass the cost on to the consumer.

Yep something we used to get for free (built into cost of groceries) we now have to pay for.
As for them getting into the sea, well like global warming, Aus is going to fix all the worlds problems by not burning coal, which we produce and sell. Same with plakky bags, those pics posted previously are not from here. Would be good to see what the country of where they were taken is doing about the problem.

Finally, I now buy $2.50 kitchen tidy bags, thick and strong for 15. these fit my bins nicely. As I am the shopper for the family, I also pay the 15c each shop for the bags I used to get for free and then used for the kitchen bins. Do you know where all this thick plastic ends up? The same place that the thin bags used to go...

[aussiblue]

I agree it would be better to ban all plastic bags o back to good old biodegradable brown paper bags made from recycled paper; all plastic bags pose an environmental pollution risk. I spent a lot of time at sea on commercial fishing boats in the last 20 years of my working life and I have to say plastic bags of all types together with "Japanese sea boots" (thongs) were one of the most common forms of rubbish seen at sea.

Edit: I forgot the cigarette butts: https://www.care2.com/causes/10-most...ean-trash.html

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I agree it would be better to ban all plastic bags o back to good old biodegradable brown paper bags made from recycled paper; all plastic bags pose an environmental pollution risk. I spent a lot of time at sea on commercial fishing boats in the last 20 years of my working life.

image

Interesting table, Aussieblue. Would you say that most of that stuff was blown/floated out to sea or was chucked overboard from boats and ships? The cigarette butts surely would be tossed from cruise ships or merchant ships, wouldn’t they?

I had dinner at the local club the other night and noticed they’ve replaced the plastic drinking straws with thick cardboard straws.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

Interesting table, Aussieblue. Would you say that most of that stuff was blown/floated out to sea or was chucked overboard from boats and ships? The cigarette butts surely would be tossed from cruise ships or merchant ships, wouldn’t they?

I had dinner at the local club the other night and noticed they’ve replaced the plastic drinking straws with thick cardboard straws.

You understand all stormwater goes straight out to sea?

[LG17]

For mine, the overuse of plastic packaging is far worse than the single use bags which get a second use in wrapping the rubbish for the bin.
Why does half the fruit and vegies have to be packed in a plastic base and then wrapped with cling wrap?
There's so much single serve stuff packed then repacked into another container holding 10 or a dozen of them.
Do they think people can't measure out of a tin or a box if they want a single serve?
This 'value adding' is killing everything.

[stefcio007]

Originally Posted by LG17

For mine, the overuse of plastic packaging is far worse than the single use bags which get a second use in wrapping the rubbish for the bin.
Why does half the fruit and vegies have to be packed in a plastic base and then wrapped with cling wrap?
There's so much single serve stuff packed then repacked into another container holding 10 or a dozen of them.
Do they think people can't measure out of a tin or a box if they want a single serve?
This 'value adding' is killing everything.

Don't shoot the messenger but things are being packed like this because everyone puts everything through as brown onions, can't do that if it's packaged and has a barcode on it.