what does the falcon do better than the territory?

[HULK_I6T]

I was always a falcon man, recently I owned 3 falcons at the same time. loved the mods, performance etc..

but recently ive been converted to the ford territory. to me it does everything a falcon can do but then offers its own advantages on top.

I havent driven my bf xr6t all year and prefer to take the territory out.

can someone remind me what exactly a falcon does better than a territory?

[T MAN]

everything, the falcon is lighter, faster, more fuel efficient, handles better, looks better and doesn't have front ball joints that fail at the drop of a hat lol.

[Lunch]

0-100

[new2ford]

The Territory is a different class of vehicle so you can't directly compare them except that Territory has a better step-in and carrying volume (people and cargo). Falcon will obviously handle better, being lower - although I have to say I've never got the rear wheels to break loose in a Territory but I have in a Falcon!

[Giant Cranium]

Steer

[HULK_I6T]

Buyers of falcons are usually looking for a spacious car with decent performance and low cost.

Territory is more comfortable, more versatile, in my opinion looks better and has more presence about it, performs pretty much as well as falcon and it doesn't have the bogan stigma that the falcon just can't shirk.

It seems that the territory is pretty much contributed to the falcon decline, when comparing the two, I don't know how anyone could chose falcon? 0-100? really?

Maybe the fpv/performance models have their place with falcon but for the general models?

I have one of the best model falcons at home in a xr6t.. modded with 330+rwkw.. I havent driven it all year. but I grab the keys of the territory at every opportunity.

[Raptor]

Anyone who thinks the B-series Falcons steer better than a Territory clearly haven't driven a Territory.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Anyone who thinks the B-series Falcons steer better than a Territory clearly haven't driven a Territory.

I've driven both extensively and the Falcon steers significantly better.
However, the Territory does steer very well for the type of vehicle it is.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Sox

However, the Territory does steer very well for the type of vehicle it is.

Salaam, salaam - grateful for any few crumbs thrown to us Territory owners from Falcon folk!

Short of BMW, Territory steers and handles better than any SUV on the market. It's still a benchmark after a decade.

Both Falcon and Territory complement each other in the Ford stable. Pointless pitting them against each other.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Anyone who thinks the B-series Falcons steer better than a Territory clearly haven't driven a Territory.

Having driven neither a B Series Falcon nor a similar vintage Territory i cant fathom how the later would be a better drive. Im not saying your wrong at all, but can you enlighten me as to how the Territory is better?

As for space id say the Territory nails the falcon, but i guess they are very different cars and wouldnt be cross shopped, or would they? If they were id pick a falcon hands down.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Having driven neither a B Series Falcon nor a similar vintage Territory i cant fathom how the later would be a better drive. Im not saying your wrong at all, but can you enlighten me as to how the Territory is better?....

I claimed they steer better, not necessarily a better drive.

Here's why; ref. http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2572100028B8D4

A new front suspension is the start point as Ford starts revealing Territory



19 August 2003
By MARTON PETTENDY

THE first look under Territory’s all-new exterior sheetmetal has revealed a number of world firsts.

Ford is claiming the redesigned front suspension, optimised rear suspension and unique new 17-inch tyres result in Territory providing a car-like ride and handling offers the best of both on and off-road worlds.

Known as "Virtual Pivot Control Link" and replacing Falcon’s double wishbone set-up, Territory’s new front suspension is a sophisticated four-link design typically found on more expensive European vehicles.

It will be employed on all Territory versions, whether they are all-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive.

Designed to allow the placement of the lower pivot point as far outboard as necessary to achieve Ford’s vehicle dynamics targets for Territory, the new suspension replaces Falcon’s single lower A-arm with a pair of lower control arms, mounted to two separate balljoints.

The separate short and long lower links create a virtual pivot point at their imaginary intersection, which would have interfered with Territory’s front brake rotor, which is 25mm-larger than Falcon. Hence the Virtual Pivot Control Link name. The double-balljoint system is the first of its type in the Ford world.

The new suspension therefore incorporates a new spindle, or knuckle, featuring two lower control arm balljoint mounts, a larger centre hub to accommodate drive through it, new calliper and (now vertical) anti-roll bar mount and new, front-mounted steering arm mounts.

Territory is said to be the first locally engineered vehicle to feature a forward-mounted steering rack.

Ford vehicle dynamics manager Stephan Presser, who replaced Ford chassis development manager Alex de Vlugt in May and previously worked on suspension systems for the Ford Ka, new Fiesta and, most recently, the next generation Focus, explained the system.

"SUVs leave room for improvement, so Territory hopes to capitalise on that," he said.

"Agility, stability, precision and comfort are the key attributes of Ford DNA. The new Virtual Pivot Control Link front suspension delivers on all those goals and ensures car-like driving dynamics for Territory.

"We set ourselves very high targets for our scrub radius and kingpin offset. Moving the lower pivot point allowed us to achieve those targets to ensure real benefits for drivers."

Mr Presser said Territory’s scrub radius target ensured a high level of braking stability while its kingpin offset level reduced torque steer and steering wheel vibrations. Together, they are said to deliver ride and handling levels not seen in an SUV.

Ford confirmed Territory would be shorter overall than Falcon, while it also revealed:

* Territory’s wheelbase is 2842mm compared with 2829mm for Falcon
* Front end track width has increased 60mm to 1620mm
* Spring rate has increased 17Nm/mm to 50Nm/mm
* Anti-roll bar diameter has increased 3mm to 27mm
* Rebound travel has increased 11mm to 93mm
* Front roll centre height has increased a big 70mm to 132mm.

At the rear, Falcon’s Control Blade IRS has increased in track by 30mm, while spring rates are up 30 per cent, rebound travel is up 20mm, roll centre height up 60mm and suspension bushes are retuned.

Apart from the larger front brake discs and callipers, Ford also revealed a new tyre designed specifically for Territory AWD.

Developed in conjunction with Goodyear in Luxembourg and to be produced locally, the new silica-based Goodyear Fortera measures 235/60 R17 and is said to be its world-first original-equipment fitment.

Territory RWD will employ a Goodyear Integrity tyre of the same size and a full-size spare wheel will be standard.

Three-and-a-half years in the making, Territory’s new front suspension is claimed to return a best-in-class turning circle of 11.4 metres, while Territory RWD’s 52/48 front/rear weight distribution alters to 54/46 in the AWD version.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I claimed they steer better, not necessarily a better drive.

Here's why; ref.

That explains why they steer well, however there's nothing indicating they steer better than a Falcon, of which I have heard a few times within this thread.

I've spent a lot of time in both and can certainly acknowledge the Territory steers very well for the class of vehicle it is.
In fact it does most things very well for what it is.

However, it is not in the same class as the Falcon dynamically. This isn't a knock on the Territory as it does well to be where it is.
But, it is still somewhat more truck like than a Falcon.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sox

That explains why they steer well, however there's nothing indicating they steer better than a Falcon, of which I have heard a few times ....

My comparison was to B-series Falcons, which I agree are not a bad steerer either. However if the Falcon setup was better why would Ford have designed a virtual pivot front end (similar to the Territory) for the next generation of Falcons, the FG/FGX?

Originally Posted by new2ford

....
Territory is basically a Falcon on stilts aimed at the family market.

Correct. They are also more correctly described as a crossover (car derived) rather than a SUV (light truck/pickup derived) which brings with it the dynamic benefits mentioned.

Lets just celebrate both the Falcon and the Territory and be proud we had such great vehicles designed and manufactured here.

[Dr Smith]

There are some features in a G6E/T that you don't get in a Terry. eg memory ext. mirror positions linked to keys, dipping lhs mirror when reversing, 8-way power drivers seat vs 6-way for Terry. Having gone from G6ET to Terry I miss the performance the most but gained a quieter (even in diesel), smoother riding, better long distance tourer with greater practicality, easier entry and greater driving observation position...but I do miss the performance. In the ideal world I'd have both.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

.... In the ideal world I'd have both.

That was the TTG

If that had of continued into the SZ/SZ2 series I probably wouldn't still be driving my 10yr old one.

.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Raptor

That was the TTG

If that had of continued into the SZ/SZ2 series I probably wouldn't still be driving my 10yr old one.

.

Lol, test drove one twice, arranged finance then ....spent $198K on house reno/addition...nice house but no TTG

PS and look at all the hipo suv euro's now that fill school pick-up's...

[CQB-241]

Originally Posted by Raptor

That was the TTG

If that had of continued into the SZ/SZ2 series I probably wouldn't still be driving my 10yr old one.

.

Hurt when the family outgrew the '06 SY TTG 7 seater. Very versatile, went like stink and great to drive (was mostly under 200km per week with spousal duty bar the odd trip, so WTF re fuel).

At least the Mrs is the usual driver of its replacement (Tarago 3.5) so I have been somewhat shielded from the loss. The prospect of the Miami-engined FGX due in 5 weeks will help dull the pain too.

[Sox]

Off the top of my head, Falcon handles better, rides better, steers better, accelerates better, uses less fuel, and costs less to maintain.

I'm sure there's a few things the Territory does better than a Falcon too.

They're a totally different class of car, and I'm surprised the question needs to be asked. Particularly by someone who claims to own both?

If you don't know the strengths and weaknesses of both now, then you're probably not very in-tune with your cars, and likely never will be.

There is no better here, they're different.

[CQB-241]

As to the topic of this thread (getting off the TTG worship).....

.....Territory better meets people's perceptions of what they need (ie what they want) than Falcon. Geoff Polites pushed the vehicle into a glaring gap that it owned and I suspect still would if updates were faster and engine options included those available to Falcon. Falcon realistically only survives now as it can share a line with Territory and is keeping the seat warm for the new Mondeo and Mustang.

Stupid thing is the Falcon (particularly the wagon) did 99% of what the Territory 5 seater did for 99% of buyers for less fuel and less visual obstruction at intersections but people wanted (and still want) SUVs over sedans. But need more than 5 seats.....

.....and in (RIP) TTG form with 7 seats.....

[chookaradley]

Our SZ TS is simply the most comfortable car I've ever driven, eats miles like no other car I've driven, and I've driven plenty. Last year drove 450km in a day 44 deg 5 people on board fully loaded, and arrived at destination as fresh as a daisy. I don't think people appreciate just how well they drive when compared with other SUV's

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by chookaradley

Our SZ TS is simply the most comfortable car I've ever driven, eats miles like no other car I've driven, and I've driven plenty. Last year drove 450km in a day 44 deg 5 people on board fully loaded, and arrived at destination as fresh as a daisy. I don't think people appreciate just how well they drive when compared with other SUV's

This

Can't say the same about the Falcon, at least not as a rear seat passenger.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

This

Can't say the same about the Falcon, at least not as a rear seat passenger.

As good as the Territory is for an SUV, I find the Falcon better in all those areas mentioned by the fella you quoted.
The rear seat is awful in the Territory.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Sox

As good as the Territory is for an SUV, I find the Falcon better in all those areas mentioned by the fella you quoted.
The rear seat is awful in the Territory.

Different strokes for different folks, the trips I have had to do as a rear seat passenger in a number of different SUV's (Explorer, Forester, RAV4, Territory) have all been significantly more comfortable than the one I had in a FG Falcon.

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by chookaradley

Our SZ TS is simply the most comfortable car I've ever driven, eats miles like no other car I've driven, and I've driven plenty. Last year drove 450km in a day 44 deg 5 people on board fully loaded, and arrived at destination as fresh as a daisy. I don't think people appreciate just how well they drive when compared with other SUV's

I was a back seat passenger on a road trip to Echuca with 3 mates. I am a big unit and seated behind a really big unit. The driver was a giant and the guy seated behind him was a more regular build.

Us back seat passengers had heaps of room, the seat was comfortable and we felt very fresh at the end of the trip. The Territory is seriously impressive for passenger comfort.

When I had my BA XR6 my adult sized sons used to complain about mainly the leg room, particularly when seated behind me. I'd imagine the FG wouldn't be much different.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by Bearman

I was a back seat passenger on a road trip to Echuca with 3 mates. I am a big unit and seated behind a really big unit. The driver was a giant and the guy seated behind him was a more regular build.

Us back seat passengers had heaps of room, the seat was comfortable and we felt very fresh at the end of the trip. The Territory is seriously impressive for passenger comfort.

When I had my BA XR6 my adult sized sons used to complain about mainly the leg room, particularly when seated behind me. I'd imagine the FG wouldn't be much different.

not just leg room but headroom. sitting in the back of a b series sedan if your a tall bloke. basically have to arch your neck..

all the storage compartments in the territory are phenomenal. I dont know why half those ideas didnt make their way into falcon.

[mcnews]

Had an 07 Ghia AWD until recently, also had the GT-E at the same time. THe Territory is a big bus but drives very, very well for being a big bus. Would have loved to have seen FG spec Turbo engine in updated Territory, as it is a league ahead of the B series turbo when it comes to power/torque/economy (also owned BF F6 and FG F6 so know the difference very well)

[TUF_302]

Surely it comes down to what each person needs for there lifestyle? well at least to some degree

[arronm]

One is a car, the other is a box on wheels.

[kypez]

I got a Terri loan car a couple of weeks ago. The straight 6 wasnt a nice fit for me. The turbo diesel did feel a better drive.

I use my G6E as tow car and as an EcoLPi, the straight 6 is far more at home in it. I found the Terri extremely sluggish. Mind you, this car had only 14 kms on it so it was brand new. But still, wasn't what I wanted from a car.

That said, It was a fantastic drive that hides its size very well but with no need for 7 seats, the falcon does everything I need and better than the Terri.

[The Yeti]

Loose market Value?