How did the Falcon/Commodore lose it all?

HULK_I6T · 09-12-2013, 11:10 PM

Growing up I could always remember either the falcon or the commodore at the top of the sales charts. Every motor/wheels magazine was a falcon vs commodore shoot out. The Australian public loved them and there was daylight to anything else.

But somewhere along the way it all went out the window? Now from 2016 falcon will be gone and commodore likely to go too. It seems no one wants them anymore?

But where did it all go so wrong? Have the cars grown up in size too much? Too much competitive pressure from other car makers? Needs of the common family changed? Fuel prices and living costs? Requirement to have baby seats in cars? A particular model was released? Government departments started buying other cars?? Australian industry couldn't keep pace with other nations?

What's your rationale for when things started to go horribly wrong and lead the falcodore to demise? When the war is over come 2016, Do we simply down tools and walk away? pick another car manufacturer? This community and the ls1 community become largely extinct?

What happened from what seemed like market domination to extinction?

pottery beige · 09-12-2013, 11:12 PM

on ya hulk

PlukaDuck · 09-12-2013, 11:20 PM

SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
I f people stop buying foreign cars then the problem is fixed.
If people don't buy second hand foreign cars then people wont buy new because they have no resale value.
If people elected a decent government with balls .....then the problems fixed.
Don't blame the government because THE PEOPLE ELCTED IT

Simply the only problem with Australia going down the ****** shoot
is Australians

dannyxm · 10-12-2013, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

S

Simply the only problem with Australia going down the ****** shoot
is Australians

This,

We live in a society where we are keeping up with the Kardashians, not the Joneses.

Having a new Falcon or Cdore is not good enough.
Having a 3 bedroom house is not good enough.
Having a 50 inch tv is not good enough.
etc etc etc

Spammy · 10-12-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny351

This,

We live in a society where we are keeping up with the Kardashians, not the Joneses.

Having a new Falcon or Cdore is not good enough.
Having a 3 bedroom house is not good enough.
Having a 50 inch tv is not good enough.
etc etc etc

All good points : if the government wants to make things better they should force people to live in a cardboard box, don't send your kids to school & uni (especially girls), TV and other relaxation is for homos.

World would be a better place if we all worked in salt mines and our pay was credited to Ford/Holden each week and we were "given" a new car every 3 years.

Where can I sign a petition to change Australia ? -- I love it when somebody else tells me how to live my life.

superyob · 10-12-2013, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
I f people stop buying foreign cars then the problem is fixed.
If people don't buy second hand foreign cars then people wont buy new because they have no resale value.
If people elected a decent government with balls .....then the problems fixed.
Don't blame the government because THE PEOPLE ELCTED IT

Simply the only problem with Australia going down the ****** shoot
is Australians

At a simplistic level this might be the case but I think that the issues run deeper. I think a shift in Australia's cultural values and the fragmentation of a basically European society into that of a multi-cultural society has a lot to do with it. For example, there are many ethnic groups that call Oz home,more so than say 20 years ago. However, it is not unreasonable to assume that they will buy a car from their ancestral home to maintain some sort of link with it. Also, look at any PS3/Xbox car games. What are the cars that handle the best on screen? The imports... And that is what many young people may be basing their purchase on. The Mitsoyota PZX rocketship could do fully sick drifts on screen, so obviously it will do that in real world conditions...

SpoolMan · 09-12-2013, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6_benito

When the war is over come 2016, Do we simply down tools and walk away? pick another car manufacturer? This community and the ls1 community become largely extinct?

The sky wont fall in, where loosing a couple of models and gaining many more, Ford will live on here in Australia and the rest of the world.
Picking another manufacturer means your going to buy an overseas car which will be our only option, unless you want a Camry and there still here in 2016.

nstg8a · 09-12-2013, 11:40 PM

I spent most of my life with falcon being an import anyway, so I guess it's not a big thing for me to cross shop other imports, but I can certainly see why for some its a bigger step to be looking at imports as the only option.

cro142 · 09-12-2013, 11:51 PM

Where did they go wrong?

It's a market shift where the majority of the buying public now want either an SUV or a "city car", for lots of good reasons. Mainly something different as the need for larger sedans has faded due to smaller family structures and changed motoring behaviour - most now fly interstate rather than drive, as it's cheaper and quicker, so who needs a capable long-distance sedan? etc etc.

But, one of the BIG reasons is that the newly dominant SUV's and city cars are CHEAP, and loaded with gadgets. Gone are the days when a car was purchased for comfortable travel - now it's more important to have double-overhead-transmogrifying-electron drive scuff plates.

Simply put, the world has changed.
But I still absolutely love the way my XR6 Turbo eats country miles!!
Even after 900km you step out fresh-as.

P

Grippy · 09-12-2013, 11:40 PM

Hulk, people aren't buying large sedans and wagons anymore, plus there's so much more choice in the way of reliable, tech packed cheap imports.

mik · 10-12-2013, 01:23 AM

A market shift ? .......................if supremely focused japanese company like Toyota cant build and make a corolla or an aurion for a profit in Australia without exporting to keep them going (and that is debateable without govco funding)................ I'd say it is not just a ford/holden/commy /falcon problem, this is an industry wide cost problem...... and not only car maker problem on our little ozzy rock.

**Dave R** · 10-12-2013, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6_benito

This community and the ls1 community become largely extinct?

This community is safe- Ford's future in this country is looking bright. The Mustang arrival is going to kickstart a new wave of enthusiasm that the brand hasn't seen in many years. Add that to all of the new global Ford products that we'll receive, things are looking good.

b0son · 10-12-2013, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

This community is safe- Ford's future in this country is looking bright. The Mustang arrival is going to kickstart a new wave of enthusiasm that the brand hasn't seen in many years.

There's a big difference between oohhs and aahhs at a motor show, or likes on a FB page, and people actually opening their wallet. What good is a big 2-door to the average person?

**Dave R** · 10-12-2013, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

There's a big difference between oohhs and aahhs at a motor show, or likes on a FB page, and people actually opening their wallet. What good is a big 2-door to the average person?

I wasn't talking about sales, just enthusiasm for the brand. If it gets people back into Ford showrooms, it's done its job.

b0son · 10-12-2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I wasn't talking about sales, just enthusiasm for the brand. If it gets people back into Ford showrooms, it's done its job.

You mean like 'wow, that Mustang's nice... makes me want to go out and buy a Fiesta?'

Most people aren't enthusiasts. I don't see the Mustang appealing to very many people TBH.

**Dave R** · 10-12-2013, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

You mean like 'wow, that Mustang's nice... makes me want to go out and buy a Fiesta?'

Absolutely, that's why hero cars exist- to build the brand. Brand image is everything and having one of the most legendary nameplates on earth in your stable (pun intended) is something every manufacturer wants. It gets people interested in the brand.

DanielXR8 · 10-12-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I wasn't talking about sales, just enthusiasm for the brand. If it gets people back into Ford showrooms, it's done its job.

True enough.

Then the dealers can do their job of getting them back out again.

The Falcon might be gone, but the dealers and the attitudes that put Falcon second to Holden all these years are still there.

stevz · 10-12-2013, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

True enough.

Then the dealers can do their job of getting them back out again.

The Falcon might be gone, but the dealers and the attitudes that put Falcon second to Holden all these years are still there.

Which is why I laugh when people suggest that ending manufacture in Australia will be the end of all Ford's problems.

**ebxr8240** · 10-12-2013, 05:07 AM

Economy of scale , eventually they got too expensive to make here ! Much like our clothing industry 20 years ago. The cost per item is just too expensive now that thers a world market. Freight is way cheaper. Etc etc
Our fuel is imported now for much the same reasons. One big central plant is cheaper than 100's around the world .. Where they are talking 100's of millions not 1000's !

Nikked · 10-12-2013, 07:25 AM

Kevin and Melinda no longer need one "do all" car in the family, Kev has his Hilux as a work hack and to tow the boat to the water on the weekend. Melinda has a Mazda 3 as the run about, dropping Michal at McDonald's for work, and teacher her sister to drive.

BLUEYBA · 10-12-2013, 08:21 AM

I think both Holden and Ford too the buying public for granted for too long. They were giving the people what they think we should have rather than giving us what we wanted in the Falcon and Commodore

vztrt · 10-12-2013, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEYBA

I think both Holden and Ford too the buying public for granted for too long. They were giving the people what they think we should have rather than giving us what we wanted in the Falcon and Commodore

Well they've fixed that come 2016.

FGX-351 · 10-12-2013, 08:35 AM

Call me stubborn but regardless of how it all goes down, I'll never buy a damn camry!

stevz · 10-12-2013, 08:41 AM

There is evidence here right before our eyes - We are on a Ford forum yet it is plastered with Nissan ads. Go figure.

Ducati888 · 10-12-2013, 08:42 AM

Free trade agreement is predominantly to blame. Our government has spent the last 20 years protecting the workers of Thailand and South East Asia at the expense of our own.

The car makers are also to blame. When the Laser was made in Brisbane it was a best seller, and as it happens was the way of the future. Ford discarded it when it became mediocre, and should have developed it and continued it. Imagine now in 2013 a Mazda 3 based Laser, being made here.

Even so, it would only be 3000 units per month because the market is so diluted across so many makes and models now. 30 years ago, there was only about ten choices. Now there's 70 odd.

mcnews · 10-12-2013, 08:59 AM

This from a very intelligent and funny engineer I know at Bosch.

"I like my chosen profession, I like manufacturing, and I like cars. And I'd like to be able to keep making cars, as a country. But I can see it's not viable. I can see how difficult and hard many of us work to not even break even, unlike just about every one else I know in other engineering fields. There is simply no profit left. So what of the future? Luckily I don't have answer those questions and I have made the express professional choice to exclude myself from having to make hard choices, from having to lead. It's easier letting others do it if they want to...

Coincidentally we had a round to redundancies yesterday, loosing 3 heads from the 30 odd in our eng dept - about 10%. I'm off to the PG this morning to plan the future of vehicle testing with our 1 remaining full time test driver/test coordinator. How long will we even keep this test capacity, whatever is left of it? Anyway, I will dodge the hard questions and just make the jokes. I'm off to find info about training to be a barista, and check the latest plasma screen catalogues. It's all about service industries and cheap imported plasma screens form here forward :-) "

RedHotGT · 10-12-2013, 09:10 AM

What people seem to forget is that you are comparing a hugely different timeframe of when the Falcon/Commdore was sucessful, to today...

Let me take you back 15 years ago - when the Falcon and Commdore were selling quite well. I've selected two cars to compare to paint you a very blatantly obvious picture....
1998 Ford AU Forte Petrol Sedan - RRP $29,990
1998 BMW E46 328i Petrol Sedan - RRP $86,800
There is a $56k difference between the two cars... or roughly 3 times the price...
Also consider what your wage was in 1998, what your mortgage was in 1998 etc...
NOW - Fast forward to today:
2013 Ford FGII XT Petrol Sedan - RRP $37,235
2013 BMW 328i Petrol Sedan - RRP $68,900
Now there is only $30k difference in it, or roughly less than HALF the price difference... So the Beemer is now $20k cheaper (20% cheaper), and is JAM packed with stuff (8spd Auto, way better fuel economy, etc etc etc) and the Falcon has INCREASED in price by $9k (25% more expensive)...

Ok - so it's numbers and jargon etc... I know I know... but now think about it properly... The Falcon costs more (though I still reckon it's cheap for what you get), the BMW costs less (and is FULL of good bits), and the gap between the two is less than it has EVER been before...

So, more people are taking the plunge, borrowing more, and buying European built cars. And that is just ONE example, I'm sure if you compared the relative Benz, Audi, VW, you'd see a similar trend... and I haven't even touched on the Jap cars that are better now than they've ever been in the past as well...

So to answer the OP - when did the Falcon/Commodore lose it all?? Well they didn't really... Everyone else just caught up........

MAD · 10-12-2013, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHotGT

What people seem to forget is that you are comparing a hugely different timeframe of when the Falcon/Commdore was sucessful, to today...

Let me take you back 15 years ago - when the Falcon and Commdore were selling quite well. I've selected two cars to compare to paint you a very blatantly obvious picture....
1998 Ford AU Forte Petrol Sedan - RRP $29,990
1998 BMW E46 328i Petrol Sedan - RRP $86,800
There is a $56k difference between the two cars... or roughly 3 times the price...
Also consider what your wage was in 1998, what your mortgage was in 1998 etc...
NOW - Fast forward to today:
2013 Ford FGII XT Petrol Sedan - RRP $37,235
2013 BMW 328i Petrol Sedan - RRP $68,900
Now there is only $30k difference in it, or roughly less than HALF the price difference... So the Beemer is now $20k cheaper (20% cheaper), and is JAM packed with stuff (8spd Auto, way better fuel economy, etc etc etc) and the Falcon has INCREASED in price by $9k (25% more expensive)...

Ok - so it's numbers and jargon etc... I know I know... but now think about it properly... The Falcon costs more (though I still reckon it's cheap for what you get), the BMW costs less (and is FULL of good bits), and the gap between the two is less than it has EVER been before...

So, more people are taking the plunge, borrowing more, and buying European built cars. And that is just ONE example, I'm sure if you compared the relative Benz, Audi, VW, you'd see a similar trend... and I haven't even touched on the Jap cars that are better now than they've ever been in the past as well...

So to answer the OP - when did the Falcon/Commodore lose it all?? Well they didn't really... Everyone else just caught up........

I don't know about BMW but Ford definitely started to take a slide on quality after this too. Especially on the interior.

Price up, quality down.... Good business model.