True test of the red faith - Holden Volt

[Poetic Justice]

So I was browsing around Carpoint earlier, and came across an article covering the presence of Hybrid/electric vehicles in Australia.

Now I knew the Holdent Volt was coming. As a Toyota sales manager, I understand how hard it is to 'sell' Hybrid and Electric technology. Toyota have been doing it for years, and whilst it is becoming easier than in the past, it is still difficult.

Read here for a snippet on the Holden Volt:

Originally Posted by Carpoint

HOLDEN VOLT
If hybrid power does amount to a transitional technology, plug-ins (PHEV) sit further up the developmental curve. But just what is a ‘plug-in hybrid’? Beyond Toyota’s conservative interpretation in the plug-in Prius, there are almost as many iterations as there are companies making them.

Several big names are going down the REEV (range-extended electric vehicle) path. That is, an EV with an internal combustion engine that only ever drives a generator to keep the battery topped up. The logic is simple: spinning a small generator uses a lot less fuel than spinning four wheels laden with 1.5 tonnes of car.

The best known of the REEV breed is Holden’s Volt. Its so-called ‘Voltec’ drivetrain uses three powerplants: a front-mounted 111kW electric-drive motor does the heavy lifting; a secondary motor-cum-generator shifts between helping out with traction and generator duties; and a 1.4-litre petrol engine runs the generator.

When the engine management system detects battery levels dropping, it boots up the 63kW 1.4-litre petrol engine to run the generator, which itself produces up to 54kW to top up the 16.5kW/h lithium ion battery pack. The petrol engine plays no direct part in driving the car.

Built on the Cruze platform, and priced at $59,990, the Volt goes on sale in October. It packs a suitably premium list of kit including: eight airbags, forward collision alert, lane departure warning, 17-inch alloys, daytime running lights, a seven-inch touch screen with sat-nav and a rear-view camera, quality audio with Bluetooth streaming, a 30GB hard drive and voice recognition.

Now, there was a time that the Toyota Prius was selling in the early $40k, and it was hard to justify the expense when clearly something similar in size (Corolla) is almost half the price. Obviously, it comes at a hard justification to be a greenie when it would take quite some time to save the difference in the fuel costs of the $20k price deficit.

Since then, the Prius has been repriced as a result of the Lexus CT200h coming into the market. It now sells for mid $30s, still dear, but far more realistic.

So then to suggest that the Holden Volt will sell for $59,990? Man there is a lot of vehicles out there you can buy for that money. Is this really a justifiable cost for the technology? I had a look on carsales to find a Lexus CT200h 2012 no km's at $43,888 drive away.

Sure it might have technology, but is it going to net you a far better result whilst still having a domestic rather than luxury badge?

As for the thread title, this is just one of those situations I look forward to seeing the Holden faithful by it simply because it's a Holden badge.

[Polyal]

Its going to be interesting, cant see that price staying for long.

If the gov jumps on this and not EB4/LPi then I will be spitting chips.

[Rockape]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its going to be interesting, cant see that price staying for long.

If the gov jumps on this and not EB4/LPi then I will be spitting chips.

I will be having a fit as well. But i can see it happening.

[crymoarpls]

when people say holden faithful i think of a hrt shirt wearing v8 supercar fan. i dont think they will buy this car en masse and i dont think they are the target market. businesses and government fleets might buy it instead of your prius or camry hybrid and instead of the smaller mitsubishi imiev.

it will have no effect on how people feel about the commodore or hsv offerings so in my opinion it isnt a test of faith but a strengthening of the brands options for consumers.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by crymoarpls

when people say holden faithful i think of a hrt shirt wearing v8 supercar fan. i dont think they will buy this car en masse and i dont think they are the target market. businesses and government fleets might buy it instead of your prius or camry hybrid and instead of the smaller mitsubishi imiev.

it will have no effect on how people feel about the commodore or hsv offerings so in my opinion it isnt a test of faith but a strengthening of the brands options for consumers.

A mate of mine bought a Holden Captiva, despite how crap they are, simply because its a Holden.

[crymoarpls]

Originally Posted by SCUD

A mate of mine bought a Holden Captiva, despite how crap they are, simply because its a Holden.

i'm sure your circle of friends and specifically your one mate who bought a captiva is fully representative of the thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands of people who call themselves holden fans.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by SCUD

A mate of mine bought a Holden Captiva, despite how crap they are, simply because its a Holden.

A bloke at my missus work has one and swore black and blue it was made in Australia because it was a Holden!!
Holden probably has the bottom of the bottom of the class vehicle in every class its in and people still buy them, that badge has massive appeal.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by mr smith

A bloke at my missus work has one and swore black and blue it was made in Australia because it was a Holden!!

Ask him where Chevrolet Commodores are made!

Also happens in reverse.
I worked with a guy who bought a secondhand Daewoo. It must be a good car because Holden sell Daewoos with Holden badges on them.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Yep, at that price you can rule out any "bogan" buyers. It will be interesting to see what comparable product Ford Australia will bring out....

They are looking at the Focus EV.


I think Holden have said they will be looking to sell around 200 a year of the Volt, and they will lose money on everyone they sell. They are selling them soley as a way to brainwash the sheep into believing they are green.

Just look at the Volt commercials, they make out like they designed and built the thing. Scary thing is that most brain dead Holden lovers probably believe it.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Ask him where Chevrolet Commodores are made!

Also happens in reverse.
I worked with a guy who bought a secondhand Daewoo. It must be a good car because Holden sell Daewoos with Holden badges on them.

We call Americans ignorant and stupid, but we are no better.

[Poetic Justice]

Be a little more cynical.

I think the majority of people on this board will relate to what I'm saying.

[EFFalcon]

Holden faithful is less likely to 'test' the alternatives, so get the Holden option.
hence the Cruze being so popular.

"had a Commodore, wanted something cheaper to run, Cruze fits"

[crymoarpls]

if that is true it is just sad. i doubt both of your sweeping generalisations are true about holden buyers though.

otherwise how do you explain all the different makes of cars in a v8 supercar event carpark when there is only two makes on the track?

[Poetic Justice]

Climb out from under that rock and look around.

[crymoarpls]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Climb out from under that rock and look around.

you have one mate who bought a captiva for no other reason than because it is a holden and therefore everyone else who buys holden is doing the same. who is living under the rock again?

/thread

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by crymoarpls

you have one mate who bought a captiva for no other reason than because it is a holden and therefore everyone else who buys holden is doing the same. who is living under the rock again?

/thread

LOL....

I too have a Holden Cruze story within the family, I gave them all the info on the new focus, was objective about the specifications and comparison but at the end of the day most people dont give a fat rats...the cruze won because a friend was a Holden fan and that was that..+1 to the Cruze. The fact that it sells the way it does shows how much more brand equity Holden has...

They pump the market full of BS so everyone believes the hype. If they slowed down their spin I am confident the sales would fall (after a fair amount of time though...1-2 years?). But they wont stop...they advertised this gimmick of a car well before its release. This is the main difference between Holden and Ford, I guess we will see which strategy becomes "right".

[EDManual]

Its interesting the engine is being used as a generator and not connected to wheels. Like in lots of modern ships engines make power for an electric engine that turns the props.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Its interesting the engine is being used as a generator and not connected to wheels.

Except the Volt doesn't do that. the electric motors only help the petrol engine to accelerate. (i too thought they said they were going to do a true plug-in ev, but they ended up making it similar to the prius).

Originally Posted by EDManual

Like in lots of modern ships engines make power for an electric engine that turns the props.

Diesel/Electric trains work the same way, electric motors drive the wheels and the diesel engine is only a generator.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Except the Volt doesn't do that. the electric motors only help the petrol engine to accelerate. (i too thought they said they were going to do a true plug-in ev, but they ended up making it similar to the prius).

The Volt is definitely a range extended, plug-in EV. The engine has no connection to the wheels other than through the batteries.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Except the Volt doesn't do that. the electric motors only help the petrol engine to accelerate. (i too thought they said they were going to do a true plug-in ev, but they ended up making it similar to the prius).

The latest incarnation of the Prius can run electric only, petrol only or both. It is designed with enough grunt to cruise on electric only. The petrol engine is used to provide additional power (as in kW) when required with a secondary function of recharging the battery. Batteries are also charged during braking.

i.e. The reverse of how you are saying the Volt operates, which is how the first Prius operated.

[poppa smurf]

too spensive for this little black duck........and it wouldn't tow the van

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

too spensive for this little black duck........and it wouldn't tow the van

Absolutely with you there, i cant justify paying the extra for a new diesel Vs a new petrol ,with all things being equal,over a 5 year deppreciating value
Theres no way on this earth you would ever surely get the addition cost to go electric Vs a petrol/diesel of the same calibre unless you owned it for your life time
Some medium sized diesel powered cars are getting 5 ish L/100 Ks
Cant see the value in electric,never will, they want people to go green, give people incentives dont rip a hole in their pocket

[MAD]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Absolutely with you there, i cant justify paying the extra for a new diesel Vs a new petrol ,with all things being equal,over a 5 year deppreciating value
Theres no way on this earth you would ever surely get the addition cost to go electric Vs a petrol/diesel of the same calibre unless you owned it for your life time
Some medium sized diesel powered cars are getting 5 ish L/100 Ks
Cant see the value in electric,never will, they want people to go green, give people incentives dont rip a hole in their pocket

It's not about saving money. It's about hugging trees, and saving frogs, everywhere you go.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Its interesting the engine is being used as a generator and not connected to wheels. Like in lots of modern ships engines make power for an electric engine that turns the props.

Similar to diesel electric trains and this big baby.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by MAD

But I'd like to know how suddenly the weight of the car no longer matters.

Electric motors are more efficient then petrol motors. So you can do more with less.

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Similar to diesel electric trains and this big baby.
image

Funny thing is the most popular mining trucks are still mechanically driven. Only in the coal mines are diesel electric trucks the winner.

[flappist]

Keep it civil and not personal please.

[MAD]

HOLDEN VOLT
If hybrid power does amount to a transitional technology, plug-ins (PHEV) sit further up the developmental curve. But just what is a ‘plug-in hybrid’? Beyond Toyota’s conservative interpretation in the plug-in Prius, there are almost as many iterations as there are companies making them.

Several big names are going down the REEV (range-extended electric vehicle) path. That is, an EV with an internal combustion engine that only ever drives a generator to keep the battery topped up. The logic is simple: spinning a small generator uses a lot less fuel than spinning four wheels laden with 1.5 tonnes of car.

The best known of the REEV breed is Holden’s Volt. Its so-called ‘Voltec’ drivetrain uses three powerplants: a front-mounted 111kW electric-drive motor does the heavy lifting; a secondary motor-cum-generator shifts between helping out with traction and generator duties; and a 1.4-litre petrol engine runs the generator.

When the engine management system detects battery levels dropping, it boots up the 63kW 1.4-litre petrol engine to run the generator, which itself produces up to 54kW to top up the 16.5kW/h lithium ion battery pack. The petrol engine plays no direct part in driving the car.

Built on the Cruze platform, and priced at $59,990, the Volt goes on sale in October. It packs a suitably premium list of kit including: eight airbags, forward collision alert, lane departure warning, 17-inch alloys, daytime running lights, a seven-inch touch screen with sat-nav and a rear-view camera, quality audio with Bluetooth streaming, a 30GB hard drive and voice recognition.

Having the engine used as a generator only is a clever idea as it allows the engine to operate at it's peak efficiency all the time, similar to the aim of having a CVT gearbox.
But I'd like to know how suddenly the weight of the car no longer matters.

"motor-cum-generator" - Someone's been searching the wrong stuff on their work laptop...

[johnydep]

Federal and State Greens will all be driving them by the end of the year

Originally Posted by http://www.edmontonjournal.com/cars/...190/story.html

Convincing your average consumer to spend over $40,000 (nearly $50,000 once optioned out) on a Chevrolet is a hard sell on the best of days, and most buyers unfortunately don’t realize that the powertrain technology in the Volt is the largest percentage of its build cost by far. As battery technologies continue to develop, costs will begin to decrease, and hopefully we’ll see some improvements where buyers want it most.

For my week of puttering around town in the Volt I managed a whopping 0.5 L/100 km, and a fuel bill of $2.61. I didn’t charge the car every night, but I did manage a couple of quick charges at work that, sadly, didn’t do much good. It seemed plugging in for one hour on 120V was only giving me a couple of extra kilometres. Average time for a complete charge seemed closer to the 10-hour mark.

I can’t help but wonder if GM would have been more successful by building the Volt as a Cadillac product. Caddy buyers are already used to spending a little more money, and it would have given GM a bit more room to dress up the interior without having to stress as much about keeping the costs to a minimum

[Rodge]

Some people will buy it because its cool and trendy...whether it makes financial or environmental sense won't matter to them.

[nstg8a]

If I had the coin I would contemplate a volt.

Imo its less about fuel economy and more about helping the technology evolve.


If it wasn't for the early adopters paying big money then very little would happen in the way technological advances.

I think those that buy them should be applauded not derided.