P Platers could soon be allowed to drive turbo-charged cars.

[chrisfpv]

Article link here:
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/p...518-1yulp.html

Road safety authorities are re-assessing a blanket ban on probationary drivers getting behind the wheel of turbocharged cars.

The re-think has been prompted by the release of a turbocharged four-cylinder version of the locally-built Ford Falcon.



VicRoads has already overturned its blanket ban on P-platers driving turbo cars in favour of a system that concentrates more on a power-to-weight ratio that more accurately reflects vehicle performance.

And NSW could follow suit, with the Roads and Maritime Services department (formerly RTA) also reviewing its restrictions as part of a national approach to the controversial treatment of the new breed of fuel efficient cars.

Turbocharging has traditionally been associated with performance cars, but in recent years car makers have used the technology to downsize their engines and save fuel.

The new VicRoads rule was specifically drafted to accommodate the four-cylinder turbo Falcon, but it opens the door to dozens of other smaller cars that use turbos.

Cars with a power-to-mass ratio (PMR) of less than 130 kilowatts per tonne can now be driven by P-platers, if the manufacturer replaces the standard build plate with one stating the car's PMR falls beneath the threshold.

“This reduces the regulatory burden of probationary exemption requests on the community, vehicle manufacturers and VicRoads,” said VicRoads’ manager of vehicle safety and policy, Ross MacArthur.

He said a decision had not been made on moving to a system based solely on power to weight ratio.

Previously, probationary drivers needed to apply to VicRoads for an exemption to drive even small-capacity turbocharged cars such as the Volkswagen Golf 77TSI (1.2-litre turbocharged engine making 77 kilowatts).

By contrast, the 3.6-litre V6 Holden Commodore SV6 with 210 kilowatts remains free of restrictions.

Ford has already taken the step to alter the build plate on its four-cylinder-powered Falcon EcoBoost range, while several importers are set to follow suit.

German brands Volkswagen and Audi both make extensive use of forced induction engines and say they will now examine which models in their range could be re-plated to receive an automatic exemption.

Volkswagen spokesman Karl Gehling says he is “pleasantly surprised” by VicRoads’ change of heart.

“We fully support a power-to-weight ratio as a good way to identify what is a performance car,” he says.

“It always struck us as incongruous that P-platers could drive a (V6-powered) Golf R32 which is, in effect, a performance car, but still had to apply for an exemption to drive the Golf 77TSI.”

In NSW, the RMS is currently reviewing restrictions on P-platers “to reflect advances in vehicle technology”.

A spokesperson said the review would be completed by mid-year and would focus on smaller cars using turbo or supercharging for fuel efficiency. It is anticipated that the Ford Falcon Ecoboost will be among the models cleared for P-platers to drive.

Longer-term, a working group is attempting to establish a national standard for probationary driver vehicle restrictions.

“Although the working group is active, it is anticipated a national policy will take a few years to finalise and implement, primarily due to the need to establish supporting infrastructure, such as means to identify eligible vehicles,” the RMS spokesperson said.

Thoughts?

On thing that confuses me is the part where it states that Vicroads has already overturned its blanket ban on P-platers driving turbo cars in favour of a system that concentrates more on a power-to-weight ratio that more accurately reflects vehicle performance.
When did that happen? I thought that used to be the case but they changed it to a blanket ban a couple of years ago. Did they change it back or have I just been misinformed all this time?

[jpd80]

A better approach would be to continue the blanket ban but allow specific exemptions for vehicles as they come to market.
That way, you narrow the field of consideration to allowable vehicles rather than trying to listing unacceptable vehicles.

[Dave R]

I wonder how far these economical turbo motors can be stretched with a few bolt-ons and more boost? One version of the 4 cylinder ecoboost motor apparently makes 224kw.

[BAXR8_Ute]

I reckon go with the power to weight ratio, same as NSW does with novice rider motor bikes. But would that then include some hi power n/a vehicles?

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by BAXR8_Ute

I reckon go with the power to weight ratio, same as NSW does with novice rider motor bikes. But would that then include some hi power n/a vehicles?

Ofcourse it would but nothing wrong with that , 50 horsepower brains and 500 horsepower cars have never and will never mix succesfully .

[Bossxr8]

So Vicroads switched from the power to weight ratio formula to the blanket ban on turbos, and now they are going to switch back to power to weight.

Can these idiots do anything right? Government agencies know how to pee away time and money just for the fun of it it seems.

[mick457]

im on my p plates (only till december)
but not p 1 or p2 the onld rules
just L then P then opens in qld
does that mean i can drive a eco bost or an xr6t ect, really this is the only reason i have hung on to my ba for so long no1 at qld transport can give me an answer

[flappist]

Originally Posted by mick457

im on my p plates (only till december)
but not p 1 or p2 the onld rules
just L then P then opens in qld
does that mean i can drive a eco bost or an xr6t ect, really this is the only reason i have hung on to my ba for so long no1 at qld transport can give me an answer

You can drive an ecoboost today but not a XR6T. Wander down to Huston Ford, they have a demo at the moment.

[mick457]

flap are you in kingas?
ive been thinkin about test driven one since i hurd of them comin out
can you explain to me why i can drive a eco boost and not a xr6 t?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by mick457

flap are you in kingas?
ive been thinkin about test driven one since i hurd of them comin out
can you explain to me why i can drive a eco boost and not a xr6 t?

No Hervey Bay but I go to Kingaroy quite a bit (will be there Wednesday).

The ecoboost is exempt for P platers in the same way that M3s, 911s and 350/370Zs are all banned despite being NA 6s. They make special rules for some cars.

[XR6T0Y]

Originally Posted by mick457

can you explain to me why i can drive a eco boost and not a xr6 t?

My guess would be because the eco needs it to run. Where as the XR6T doesn't. It's made for performance

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So Vicroads switched from the power to weight ratio formula to the blanket ban on turbos, and now they are going to switch back to power to weight.

Can these idiots do anything right? Government agencies know how to pee away time and money just for the fun of it it seems.

This...pack of morons.

Always some new guy on the block trying to make a name for themselves by "improving" the system.

[fat4D]

power to weight restrictions makes sense. Not to mention its how all states do motorcycle restrictions

[Windsor342ci]

Im curious though, unless the "pits" will have dynos and fully qualified
Mechanics, how would your a average HWP know the difference between a Ecoboost with an exhaust or an Ecoboost with a bigger turbo, billet goodies and other things pushing it close to 300rwkws.
Im thinking this could open pandoras box thats all. Too many "grey" areas.

[mick457]

Originally Posted by CRYHSV

Im curious though, unless the "pits" will have dynos and fully qualified
Mechanics, how would your a average HWP know the difference between a Ecoboost with an exhaust or an Ecoboost with a bigger turbo, billet goodies and other things pushing it close to 300rwkws.
Im thinking this could open pandoras box thats all. Too many "grey" areas.

agreed
the is a very fine line with what is leagal and what isnt
its no differnt to buying a xr6t and debagin

[MWTB]

Out of curiosity, can anyone confirm the PWR for a BF XR6 @ 190kw and approx 1600kg? I worked it out at 1700kg and got 111kw per tonne, but that doesn't sound right for me.

[MWTB]

What would happen to the poor bastards that currently own cars that were exempted under the old rules but are not under the new ones?

Surely they couldn't possibly make them sell it..? Then again, it is a government body... Maybe exemptions be given to those drivers?

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by MWTB

What would happen to the poor bastards that currently own cars that were exempted under the old rules but are not under the new ones?

Surely they couldn't possibly make them sell it..? Then again, it is a government body... Maybe exemptions be given to those drivers?

I'd imagine they would still be able to keep the cars, and that the new rules would affect every P plate driver who purchased a car after the date the new rules were introduced, but not the ones who purchased there car under the old rules.

[blownv8au]

I would have thought a ba bf xr6 would be closer to 1800kg but could very well be wrong.

[XR6Naranja]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the XR6 N/A Falcon at 180KW with 1.6Tonne is almost border line of how much power you can have?

Like 210KW Turbo would be max for our 1.6Tonne cars?

Meaning any modifications to the turbo instantly puts it out of regulations?

[Jack960]

Fantastic, I'm on my P's for 3 years and my final year they think about this, ripped off lol.

Yeah the XR6 N/A is borderline on the the power to weight ratio. That and the Supra n/a are the most powerful stock p plater cars.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by Jack960

Fantastic, I'm on my P's for 3 years and my final year they think about this, ripped off lol.

Yeah the XR6 N/A is borderline on the the power to weight ratio. That and the Supra n/a are the most powerful stock p plater cars.

Not much difference for me then really, unless my family chips in the buy me a BRAND NEW Ecoboost that I can mod to make some decent power, I only have 2 years to go, and in 2 years I won't be making enough to get myself one and for it to be worth it...

But as said upwards, there would need to be funding for Dyno's otherwise all a registry/green slipper can say is, this is the STOCK power, and so this is legal...

Mind you if I'm correct the power of a BA-BF can be 210-220KW roughly, would there be any possibility you'd fit an XR6T at 240KW?

What if you stuck another 200KG's in the boot? lol

[SteveJH]

Fairly sure the laws for all states say that you cannot do performance modifications (presumably engine performance) on the cars while on your P-Plates.

So if a Police officers pulls you over and notices a non standard exhaust (for example), they can probably give you a notice that your car needs checking...if you don't just admit it and take the points.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Fairly sure the laws for all states say that you cannot do performance modifications (presumably engine performance) on the cars while on your P-Plates.

So if a Police officers pulls you over and notices a non standard exhaust (for example), they can probably give you a notice that your car needs checking...if you don't just admit it and take the points.

I often forget about that one since how many times does a cop pull you over for exhausts or performance mods, only time I've seen it is if you pester the cops a lot and they attempt to throw the book at you.

A lot of people get away with performance mods same way a lot of people will get away with turbo charged cars making way over their power to weight ratio, this law makes sense, but it's gonna be stupidly hard to enforce.

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Jack960

Fantastic, I'm on my P's for 3 years and my final year they think about this, ripped off lol.

Yeah the XR6 N/A is borderline on the the power to weight ratio. That and the Supra n/a are the most powerful stock p plater cars.

The article stipulates a limit of 130kW/tonne.

BA XR6 N/A = 182kW / 1664kgs = 109.3kW/tonne.
BF XR6 N/A = 190kW / 1707kgs = 111.3kW/tonne.
FG XR6 N/A = 195kW / 1684kgs = 115.8kW/tonne.
FG XT Ecoboost = 179kW / 1648kgs = 108.6kW/tonne.
FG XR6 Turbo = 270kW / 1733kgs = 155.8kW/tonne.
1994 Supra N/A = 164kW / 1460kgs = 112.3kW/tonne.
Ralliart Magna = 180kW / 1470kgs = 122.4kW/tonne.

[MWTB]

Originally Posted by Nic85

The article stipulates a limit of 130kW/tonne.

BA XR6 N/A = 182kW / 1664kgs = 109.3kW/tonne.
BF XR6 N/A = 190kW / 1707kgs = 111.3kW/tonne

Holy **** is the weight difference really that much between the two?

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by MWTB

Holy **** is the weight difference really that much between the two?

Those are figures from carsales, which is in turn what redbook will have, which would have come from Ford Australia's website at the time. So they should be accurate.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MWTB

Holy **** is the weight difference really that much between the two?

It definately wouldn't be that much. There's very little difference between them.


At the end of the day the turbo/V8 ban or power to weight ban will make f all difference to the road toll of P platers anyway, they can just as easily kill themselves in a Corolla or a WRX for example.

Its the inexperience thats the problem, not the cars they drive, and since proper driver education would cost the government money its easy to see which way they prefer. Better to rake in revenue in fines than spend money on driver training.

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It definately wouldn't be that much. There's very little difference between them.


At the end of the day the turbo/V8 ban or power to weight ban will make f all difference to the road toll of P platers anyway, they can just as easily kill themselves in a Corolla or a WRX for example.

Its the inexperience thats the problem, not the cars they drive, and since proper driver education would cost the government money its easy to see which way they prefer. Better to rake in revenue in fines than spend money on driver training.

I had no professional driving, but luckily I had 2 brothers who had learned from all their own mistakes to teach me what to do in situations, it's a shame others can't have this and crash their car or worse.

[XR6T0Y]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its the inexperience thats the problem, not the cars they drive, and since proper driver education would cost the government money its easy to see which way they prefer. Better to rake in revenue in fines than spend money on driver training.

Yeah this is 100% true. I got taught by my parents (who in themselves had bad habits, that I then picked up). No 'professional' teachings were given, but I still passed and got my P's back in 2010(?).
Since then (those who have seen the biuld thread), I wrote off my old El, because someone was impatient and turned off a highway infront of me.
Should I have been shown, it would have made more sense in that (if you were there you would have known what I mean) to slow down to something like 5 under. But as they say, you learn from your mistakes.

As a few have said, the car makes no difference, it's the experiance, which I still have none of and am not afraid to say it