Govt considering new Bull Bar rules

[AWD Chaser]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1225993065120

FOUR-wheel-drive owners are outraged over reports the Federal Government is considering European-style pedestrian-safety rules that could see bullbars banned.
The regulations, based on rules developed for European environment and road conditions by the United Nations Economic Cooperation for Europe also would see a ban on roo bars, nudge bars, driving lights, and winches, the NT News said.
Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association director Stuart Charity said the European standard would not work on local roads or local conditions.
"You cannot make a bullbar that does its job that complies with this standard as well," he said.
"We believe bullbars are essential protection for people travelling into regional and rural areas."
..The proposed regulations have 4x4 enthusiast and Karama resident John Girdham up in arms.
"Getting rid of bullbars would mean there would be little protection from animals," he said.
Mr Girdham also pointed out that removal of bullbars, would be removal of HF radio mounting points.
"Going off road without a bullbar is much more dangerous now," he said.
"The decision was made by some guys sitting in an air-conditioned room who have never done any off-road driving, and are only looking at soccer mums driving big four-wheel-drives," he said.
"A bullbar also offers protection to your radiator.
"If a stick goes through the radiator when you are out bush and your car overheats and breaks down, you're well and truly stuck out there."

I guess this means that insurance will go up cause we can't protect against as many animal strikes...

[Jim Goose]

Unless the Feds add a new ADR I dont see how it could regulate "state" road rules.
Its a pity there isnt a link to where the "rumour" comes from?

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Unless the Feds add a new ADR I dont see how it could regulate "state" road rules.
Its a pity there isnt a link to where the "rumour" comes from?

A) "The states" can maintain unique allowances, though they try to keep things uniform by mutual agreement, these days.

B) Australia's ongoing harmonization with The Global Technical Regulations for land transport, administered by the UN. Can't see any ban, they do emphasize 'pedestrian friendly' as possible.

NT News scare scare stuff, Scruby would be delighted.

[302 XC]

Living in a rural area with all the stray cattle,kangaroos,ect on the roads
I wouldnt be without a bullbar
I hit a cow headon at 100Ks on an out back road if it wasnt for the bullbar i wouldnt be here,or perhaps a para/quadraplegic

Is it really the bullbar that does the damage or the extra 3 tonne of 4x4 pushing it ???

Seriously some desk jockies do lack sunshine

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Living in a rural area with all the stray cattle,kangaroos,ect on the roads
I wouldnt be without a bullbar
I hit a cow headon at 100Ks on an out back road if it wasnt for the bullbar i wouldnt be here,or perhaps a para/quadraplegic

Is it really the bullbar that does the damage or the extra 3 tonne of 4x4 pushing it ???

Seriously some desk jockies do lack sunshine

you hit a cow in anything other than a kenworth your stuffed.. der....

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

you hit a cow in anything other than a kenworth your stuffed.. der....

Even when you're in a Kenworth, you're still in deep shyte.

Originally Posted by my_gxl

smart bars are quite good. I had one fitted to an AU ute.

And they’re about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike when you’re in the bush.

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

Why dont pedestrians just stick to the footpath and there wont be a problem.

Why have that? This would be making people responsible for their own actions and remove the automatic victim status when some stupid pedestrian walks out in front of a vehicle and gets run over. Better to blame the person who hit them and try on some draconian law to outlaw a perfectly legitimate piece of equipment.

What happens when you drive a semi trailer through the city that has one of those terrible BULL BARS on it? I’m shaking just thinking about it.

Anyway, I’m off to club a few baby seals before dinner.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

I hit a cow headon at 100Ks on an out back road if it wasnt for the bullbar i wouldnt be here,or perhaps a para/quadraplegice

Perhaps you should instead look where you are going?

I've ridden across Australia a dozen times, around Australia in 15 days and managed not to hit anything... Amazing what not having a bullbar does for your concentration... Perhaps we need to get rid of them so people don't drive with the false sense of security that provide, as if it is okay to be so completely unaware to your surroundings as to hit a cow at 100km/h...

[ToCo]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Perhaps you should instead look where you are going?

I've ridden across Australia a dozen times, around Australia in 15 days and managed not to hit anything... Amazing what not having a bullbar does for your concentration... Perhaps we need to get rid of them so people don't drive with the false sense of security that provide, as if it is okay to be so completely unaware to your surroundings as to hit a cow at 100km/h...

Haha good onya mate, you weren't riding around Australia on your high horse were you?
To say that these people aren't looking where they are going is just crap, I think maybe you just got lucky....
I live in a rural area, have to drive through about 5km of bush and I regularly see animals making their way onto the road, and if they decide to come into the path of my car there is nothing that I can do about it, it has nothing to do with where I was looking, if they run at the car, they will get hit. Simple as that.
I also doubt that the people that have bullbars installed on their car would just freely let the animals hit their car just because they have a bullbar on.

To think of banning these things is stupid IMO they provide safety to the drivers of the cars. I do believe that they aren't needed in the city (unless someone is traveling in from the country)
People should just watch where they are walking... easy.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by ToCo

Haha good onya mate, you weren't riding around Australia on your high horse were you? .

LOL, I will pay that one :-)

Seriously though, I think a lot of people just think oh I have a bullbar so I just will hit them when surely someone should be alert enough to take evasive action and travel to the conditions, as in, if their is wildlife about then you go slower. And of course I realise they come out in front of you, beside you etc. and have of course have experienced this more times than I can quote. Including in my native WA those peabrained bird, the emu who change direction in a way that seems to defy physics. I don't really have the choice of hitting them, so try and ensure I don't.

As for in the city people should look where they walk, of course they should, but do you think you are absolved from liability if you are not aware enough to take evasive action when something happens...? Or are you of the school of thought that I have right of way because I have a big bullbar and I won't be hurt and they are in the wrong so they deserve it anyway.

[ToCo]

Originally Posted by mcnews

LOL, I will pay that one :-)

Seriously though, I think a lot of people just think oh I have a bullbar so I just will hit them when surely someone should be alert enough to take evasive action and travel to the conditions, as in, if their is wildlife about then you go slower. And of course I realise they come out in front of you, beside you etc. and have of course have experienced this more times than I can quote. Including in my native WA those peabrained bird, the emu who change direction in a way that seems to defy physics. I don't really have the choice of hitting them, so try and ensure I don't.

Oh no doubt the drivers should be alert when they are in areas that have increased wildlife populations, the thing is that, as you would know it it just impossible to not hit them some times.
I have been in numerous arguments with my mother over this subject, she constantly says, I am going too fast and that I will hit an animal. I have said to her that you could be going 40km/h and still hit one... She disagreed..
But on night on a drive home I was in the passenger seat and mother was driving she saw a wallaby run out into the road, she was doing about 50km/h and BAM, another one bites the dust.
These animals are as dumb as they come, they will change direction for no reason and sometimes into the path of traffic, and on the tight roads down here I would rather hit them that swerve to the other side to avoid it.

Originally Posted by mcnews

As for in the city people should look where they walk, of course they should, but do you think you are absolved from liability if you are not aware enough to take evasive action when something happens...? Or are you of the school of thought that I have right of way because I have a big bullbar and I won't be hurt and they are in the wrong so they deserve it anyway.

I will always do the best to avoid an accident, in no way would I continue on a path that would involve myself and others in an accident, even if it is their fault.
These arguments end up always coming back to the way the driver thinks/acts, be it drink driving, speeding, or bullbars...

Keep em on I say!!!

[JaguarDave]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Seriously though, ....................And of course I realise they come out in front of you, beside you etc. and have of course have experienced this more times than I can quote. Including in my native WA those peabrained bird, the emu who change direction in a way that seems to defy physics. I don't really have the choice of hitting them, so try and ensure I don't.

I guess you've just been a lucky Temporary Australian so far but the strongest advice I can give you is don't get too caught up in your belief in your own ability to avoid things that pop out on to the road.

We had a very well known and experienced local motorcyclist die out here in 2009 in an incident with a roo and there's plenty of confirmed reports of others around the country who died under similar circumstances either from the impact or from being knocked off and thrown under a passing car/truck, do you think those people didn't plan on missing those furry pests just like you do?

The other problem in the higher speed country areas is that often people in cars (bull-barred or not) try to swerve to miss the animal leading to a loss of control and going off the road or worse, hitting an oncoming car head on. Swerving to miss at speed is not the recommended action.

If an animal comes out in front of me I go straight on in whether I'm in my bullbarred ute or in my non bullbarred luxo barges. Prefer it to be in the bull-barred car though cos there's a chance of less damage. I'll use the brakes hard if I can but I will not swerve.

You never know what roos will do. I even had one jump across my roof one day while driving down a dirt road out here where the bank on one side is higher than the road.

[PHATXR8]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Perhaps you should instead look where you are going?

I've ridden across Australia a dozen times, around Australia in 15 days and managed not to hit anything... Amazing what not having a bullbar does for your concentration... Perhaps we need to get rid of them so people don't drive with the false sense of security that provide, as if it is okay to be so completely unaware to your surroundings as to hit a cow at 100km/h...

Some people drive in animal-riddled country areas every day & night of the week, not just for 15 days a year. Pull your head out of your bum and at least try to understand what situation some others find themselves in. Surely you can't be so ignorant or brain-dead to suggest that all animal/vehicle collisions can be avoided by just looking where you are going.....

[J_Putz]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Living in a rural area with all the stray cattle,kangaroos,ect on the roads
I wouldnt be without a bullbar
I hit a cow headon at 100Ks on an out back road if it wasnt for the bullbar i wouldnt be here,or perhaps a para/quadraplegic

Is it really the bullbar that does the damage or the extra 3 tonne of 4x4 pushing it ???

Seriously some desk jockies do lack sunshine

How could you not see a cow?
Im beginning to think the makers of that RACQ add weren't being sexist after all.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by J_Putz

How could you not see a cow?

Easy, I’ll give you a very simple explanation.

Cows are usually dark in colour. They are not painted in Gloss paint and their hide doesn’t reflect light very well.

After day, follows night. Night time is usually dark and cows tend to go were the warmth is at night. Guess where that is, yep, the bitumen road surface where they lay down to sleep.

Roads are not always straight and have many curves, undulations and uneven sections.

So one night when you’re driving down the highway in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden there’s something asleep on the road that you couldn’t possibly see, your lights didn’t refect off it and before you know it, whammo, you’ve hit a cow.

[Rastus]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Easy, I’ll give you a very simple explanation.

Cows are usually dark in colour. They are not painted in Gloss paint and their hide doesn’t reflect light very well.

After day, follows night. Night time is usually dark and cows tend to go were the warmth is at night. Guess where that is, yep, the bitumen road surface where they lay down to sleep.

Roads are not always straight and have many curves, undulations and uneven sections.

So one night when you’re driving down the highway in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden there’s something asleep on the road that you couldn’t possibly see, your lights didn’t refect off it and before you know it, whammo, you’ve hit a cow.

Careful what we say here! The pen pushing powers that be might legislate that all cattle & horses will have to be draped in some sort of HiVis arrangement, with them then being able to say "You don't need a bullbar, you can see them a mile away". Roo's, Camels & Emu's might be a little a harder to solve though.

[my_gxl]

People have a highly developed brain (or are meant to), and and know road rules (insert same note here).

I have however seen dogs with more road sense than people.

When animals can get a license, we will ban bull bars.

I do remember seeing a pig learning to fly somewhere.

[J_Putz]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Easy, I’ll give you a very simple explanation.

Cows are usually dark in colour. They are not painted in Gloss paint and their hide doesn’t reflect light very well.

After day, follows night. Night time is usually dark and cows tend to go were the warmth is at night. Guess where that is, yep, the bitumen road surface where they lay down to sleep.

Roads are not always straight and have many curves, undulations and uneven sections.

So one night when you’re driving down the highway in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden there’s something asleep on the road that you couldn’t possibly see, your lights didn’t refect off it and before you know it, whammo, you’ve hit a cow.

Thank you for being respectful in your post. Too often people have tantrums when these types of conversations occur on FF.com.au.
But if you're driving on a road with many curves, undulations and uneven sections you should be driving to suit those conditions.
You wouldn't catch me speeding around a corner at 100km an hour if whatever's on the other side is concealed from my vision. Not in a hundred years.
Defensive Driving is defined as "driving to save lives, time, and money, in spite of the conditions around you and the actions of others." It is the standard Safe Practices for Motor Vehicle Operations.
I am a professional driver and witness how this method saves lives on a daily basis.

And for the record I think bullbars definitely have their place.
But as I hope FF.com.au were able to deduce from the Animal Farm picture, only allowing some people to have them would be completely ludicrous.

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

So one night when you’re driving down the highway in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden there’s something asleep on the road...

I can do better than that.

A few years ago I was driving home from work, around 3 or 4am and seen about half a dozen naked people walking down the middle of the road. This was on the pacific highway between Karuah and Bulahdelah, not busy at that time of the morning but certainly not an empty back road out in the sticks. It was probably 10 or 15K's from town, there were no cars on the side of the road or anything (and that wouldn't explain why they had their bits out anyway) though there was a house or two nearby.

I had plenty of time to see them so I slowed right up and drove around them, they just kept walking up the centre line in a little group. I should have went back and asked them wtf was going on but I was a little freaked out to be honest.

Anyway, nothing to do with bullbars but something to consider

[glavas]

Don't go off road or out in the country so I could care less. Hut what I don't like it government making up stupid rules for no good reason.

[mik]

the do gooders have been trying to get these banned for years, they don`t need a ban , just a redesign.

[joolz]

Originally Posted by mik

the do gooders have been trying to get these banned for years, they don`t need a ban , just a redesign.

Educate the idiot pedestrians that have painted on eyes. Look left and right before you cross the road!!!

[pottery beige]

dont step out in front of a car you wont be squashed/mangled..... bloody idiots...

[svo supporter]

What a load of rot. These desk jockies need to go for a drive in the country and see why we need them.

As for redesigning them. I'm sure that's the reason behind the smart bar. Help comply with the ADR'S

[my_gxl]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

What a load of rot. These desk jockies need to go for a drive in the country and see why we need them.

As for redesigning them. I'm sure that's the reason behind the smart bar. Help comply with the ADR'S

smart bars are quite good. I had one fitted to an AU ute.

[ThaFlash]

you don't need to travel too far to nearly hit a fox (railway station or golf course will do), possum, kangaroo or wombat (about an hour out).

maybe they should replace bull bars with automatic machine gun turrets to identify and shoot vermon (in plague proportions) before they jump out in front of you.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ThaFlash

you don't need to travel too far to nearly hit a fox (railway station or golf course will do), possum, kangaroo or wombat (about an hour out).

maybe they should replace bull bars with automatic machine gun turrets to identify and shoot vermon (in plague proportions) before they jump out in front of you.

You would need 2 V8s to carry all the ammo required for a drive in western Sydney....

[GS608]

Originally Posted by flappist

You would need 2 V8s to carry all the ammo required for a drive in western Sydney....

yet another step in the wrong direction..

[bigsta]

Originally Posted by ThaFlash

maybe they should replace bull bars with automatic machine gun turrets to identify and shoot vermon (in plague proportions) before they jump out in front of you.

yes YES YES

I want those

[Smoke Pursuit]

If the government doesnt think bullbars are required then why do they fit them to their own vehicles?? what a joke!!

[nstg8a]

im all for bull bars when theyre needed, but all too often you see people driving round the city with stupidly oversized bull bars on holden utes and 4wd's.

i say ban them, but make exceptions for people that can prove they regularly drive in areas that need them.